Another curriculum question for all Hung Kuen teachers

[ginosifu]

3 students join or are attempting to join your school.

The first is just your average Joe student.
The second is physically / gynetically a superstar athlete.
The third is a geeky uncoordinated weakling who could fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

I have had all types of students come thru my door, these 3 included. I also have had all 3 types in 1 classroom.

How do you teach these 3? Or do you except any of these guys at all? Is everyone equal in your classroom? Do you give special attention to the weak guy because he needs help? Do you give special attention to the superstar cause you he can become great if you work with him? Should you change anything in curriculum if someone is not getting it? There are those who cant or wont be able to understand /do all of your material, Do you "give" or "push" this material on them? How does your class run if someone is not getting it, do you let them move on to new material even they do not get / understand / not able to perform certain aspects or forms?
Thanks
ginsifu

[shuen]

i do not teach, but my opinion:

with the first exams your problem will clear itself. The super guy will /can make the exams faster so he will get in advenced class faster....

[Franc]

I have had simular challenges in the past and I am sure in the future as well. So as I see the question would be motivation, the student regardless of whether weak, strong or average if motivated to learn they will meet the challenges of learning at their own speed.

From my experience and those shared with me by other sifu I have found that I varied or modified my approach to the lessons in question to suit the student as a greater percentage may learn the lesson as commonly taught, lets say 8 of 10 pick it up quite easily, which leaves us with 2.

For these individuals I may have to vary my approach to the lesson or series of movements. I have found it quite strange that I have had students who were indeed gifted and talented who in the long run did not exceed the skill level of those average or slow learners.

As was told to me Humility,Kindess,Patience and Diligence go a long way in the learning process for both student and sifu.

Franc

[ginosifu]

During class drills, 2 of those 10 are the weaker or slower learning guys are not getting the jist of how the drill flows and they are having difficulty keeping up with the rest of the class.
Do you:
Slow the class down for those guys?
Make them take a step back and maybe into an easier class?
Ask them to get some private lessons to catch up?
Just keep going and hope they eventually get it?

One the reasons I ask to see how some of you might handle this situation. I myself try to help those weaker guys, giving them as much extra help as I can. However, sometimes it slows down the class for those "Gifted Athletes" that are moving and learning faster.

Would any of you consider a class order / rank as follows:
7PM - 7:45PM novices and beginners
7PM - 8:30PM Intermediate students
7PM - 9PMPM Advanced students

All students beginner to advanced start together at 7PM. Go thru basics fundamental drills etc etc.
Beginners leave at 7:45 which leaves Intermediates and advanced to work on intermediate skills and forms and start sparring / shuai chiao.
Intermediates leave at 8:30 which leaves only the advanced students to work on their material.

No matter who you are... if you have not mastered the skills of your rank, you can not go to the next class until you have all the requirements.
The only thing that may not be quite so fair is that there are some students who will stay in that beginners section for too long or even possibly never leave there. What is your opinions?

Thanks ginosifu

[ironpalm]

In every class, there is a wide diversity of talent/skill. I think it is upon the teacher to teach/treat all students who are gifted and who are poorly skilled as equals... that is, to allow all students to learn equally. That may entail teaching one or more students slightly "more" than the "gifted" students as long as the class in general does not suffer from too much attention to that person or group.

Of course, every school/class is different. In my small classes (when I taught), with beginners and advanced students in the same class, generally students performed up to their limits and then were separated out to practice by themselves in groups or solo depending on their level with other students. Obviously keeping an eye on them and giving them more to work on as they went through their practice. Basically the class would break out into groups by skill level and be taught more in line with that level so there could be 2 or 3 groups working on different things during the same class time.

An instructor argued with me that by not paying attention to any one student, he was giving equal attention to all his students. I said that because all students are not equally gifted, he should help the ones who are having a harder time with learning because then they would all "learn" equally in class. I guess it depends on your perspective.

[Asmo]

Maybe this is something that can be added into the consideration... One of the schools I trained in the sifu thought it would be good for the lesser able students (whether it be age, experience, athletic abilities, etc) to practice with the better students also. This would show them where they need to go, or who they could engage with in a real fight. In itself a good thing.

In practice this meant at times the better students would practice the whole class with a student they needed to help from beginning to end, sometimes not even be able to practice the drill themselves. Unfortunately in this case it happened that sometimes students would be several classes after another in this situation.

I know from several students I had contact with that this was part of the reason they left that school (resulting in more unexperienced students ending up in a spiral...). Sure I agree that mixing has its benefits, but some consideration for the more experienced or people who 'want to work' must also be in place. There must be some form of balance between the two.

[TenTigers]

briefly, I don' t think it would be a good move to "demote" these students to a lower class. You will lose them. Students stay with you because of the good feelings they get from training at the school. Make them feel inferior, or embarrassed, and they will leave.
Pair them off with each other, and every once in awhile pair them with a senior who is patient and knowledgeable.
Pair yourself off with them, so they can feel your hand.
Arrange a few privates with them so you can focus on these specific drills. Develop a way to break the drill down into smaller skillsets.
Perhaps you can tell us specifically, what these drills and skills are, and we can help you break them down.

[ginosifu]

[vaulander]

As someone who loves to teach, I can say I have worked with all manner of students, in various areas. Guitar and bass playing, TKD, Judo, what little I know of Shaolin, woodcarving, Warcraft III computer playing, what have you. Both my father and I worked with my sister and her math skills.
How you handle the students depends 95% on the student. Some look at the good students and say "I'm gonna get that good!" and having them in the same group will inspire them to great things, no matter how long they have to work on it.
Others go "I'll never get this..." and the skill of the others will just bring them down. Work those people alone, or with their peers. Perhaps a separate class or private teaching.

Tommy, a guy I met at Sifu Boris' Shaolin school, was all elbows, long and spindly body, and so clumsy he could mess up a sneeze. He was hungry though, very hungry. The rest of us could throw him around like a rag doll, but he never quit, he only tried harder. Once he got something, he'd be 10 feet tall for a month, and never passed up a chance to show it. Sporadic too, he could do a beautiful forward somersault, but look like a sack of potatoes doing a forward roll.
Taught him to play a song on the guitar, took 3 months for a 4 minute instrumental. (I don't sing, sounds like a sick crow in a powerdive. People would pay me to stop.) All he had at home was a kiddie guitar with a string missing, but he played his fingers raw at my place trying to get it down. One of our happiest moments when he played the song straight the first time.

My sister was the other way with math. There were times she cried after math class because she just couldn't get it, and the harder she tried, the worse it got. Coming to class where everyone else just breezed through everything (to her mind,) while she was sitting there feeling stupid was just torture. If it wasn't for dad and I spending hours with her alone she would have flunked. As it was, she barely scraped through, and she was damn glad when school was over.

[Ging18]

Im not a sifu yet but for me ill teach them fair and equal as long as their keep on training and the 3 is always present in the class. thats why CMA dont have belt ranks??? (maybe now others use sash) to avoid gaps in the students and so they can help each other when im not around kung fu training is like a family compare to a militaristic type of training like other martial arts group is doing. i dont mind if the pace of the training is getting slower because of the weak student kung fu is "work and time"