Why 10 Tigers Claws?

[PM]

Jyun Yujai's text accompanying drawing number 62 describes whole tiger section move by move, form the first "single tiger" (ie. second tiger), to the last one, ie. tenth tiger.

- Hamby's books: gjffk = Jyu, all other Leung; imho bad translation
- shaolinkungfulibrary.com = Jyu, all books; imho bad translation. the historical parts, ie. forewords, are interesting and quite well done. the translation is bad, and commentary useless and totally out.
- CJ's gjffk - Jyu plus Leung; imho best of the (bad) translations
- the Chinese originals that WLE sells = Jyu

sorry for being to critical, but without commentary written by somebody (best from LSW's lineage) who actually does the sets for long, long time, the texts are imposible to translate. literal translation by a Northern Chinese professor without any background in Hung Kyun is useless.

i know a bit about Hung Kyun, but my Chinese still sucks, so have for time being translated the books for myself - when i find someody ho will help me to polish my translation, i may publish it in the future. see the sample at http://www.hungkyun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679

form what i have seen, the job done by Charris is so far the best material out there - translated by team of native Cantonese/long time HK practitioner and help from various other practitioners/sifus

sorry guys, my net connection sukcs, when it is fixed, i will write more

all the best

[crazedjustice888]

Wow....thats a lot of info... Even though I can't study these because my forms come the Tang Fong lineage, they are just very interesting to read. So for now I will be content with the ones I have, but in the future, I will pursue the ones with better translation.

On a side note: Does anyone know anything about that workout manual of Lam Sai Wings? I asked this in another thread and no body has responded...

[Asmo]

Good info PM, I'll update the list with your findings.

CJ888 I think with the info said here you should be able to workout if that manual is good for you to have. I have it, its Leung Daat once more (there's never been a manual like this under LSW lineage) with Mandarin romantizations. Some info is nice, others is very puzzling. It's not soemthing vital to have IMO.

[Asmo]

[JE]

Asmo,

The book you mention by CJ is actually not his book. The translation in that book was done by one of my sihings, Rene Ho. Evert, my sifu, got us all to work on the project. CJ is a friend and offered his expertise at design as far as the layout and formatting of the book. We all worked on it together. The translation is not technically great as it went from Chinese to Dutch and then to English... and well, we all know what can happen with that. We did the same with the TSK books as well but kept that translation in house as we added quite a bit of our family's perspective to it. The gung ji version we decided to make available to the public and CJ was doing this through his website years ago. This just has some cursory notes as it was our first time of playing around with the idea of translations and book projects.

Technically the book is copyrighted in the UK, however, we are ok with you putting the full version online for the forum. Just make sure it is the one that gives credit to all who were involved. If you have any questions just let me know.

Regards,
Justin

[Bamboo]

[Asmo]

Bamboo, excuses for stealing your thread, it became quite off topic this way... But I hope the information makes up for it What translation you use makes a huge difference when you want to research what you asked for. That is what led me to finally find out what is what exactly ... I'm glad collectively we now compiled a list of what is what
I would add to the history/source of the 10 tiger section if I can, but I have no other (historic-) knowledge then how it was taught to me. But as all families with all their differences sort of follow the same pattern I don't think it ever has been 4 ...

If it matters any, I just had a look at the video of Mok Gweilan performing FHSYK again and she follows the pattern as we do the 10 tigers, but she does have the first double and single tiger missing. If it was this pattern at the time she learned it ...

JE, that is brilliant, thank you! I am sure many people who came into the scene in the last few years will be very glad they can have a copy of it now. Also good to see the history behind the book, that was a bit fuzzy for me as you might have noticed already
Translating is a creative process, so on a translation you automatically receive worldwide copyrights. How to enforce that if necessary is another discussion of course ...

Right, new table up-to-date:

GGFFK = Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen
FHSYK = Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen
TSK = Tit Sin Kuen

Kungfulibrary.com PDF (aka "Russian PDF's") ()
GGFFK - Chu Yutsai
FHSYK - Chu Yutsai
TSK - Chu Yutsai
On all these has to be noted that Mandarin is used whenever romantization is used, even for example for sounds which is very different from the used Cantonese. Also at times (I personally seen in GGFFK) the text is very different from Chu Yutsai's; there is additional information, or information is missing or mangled. This might or might not be true for FHSYK and TSK as I have no other translations available to check. If you know, please let me know
The PDF's have introductions, forewords etc which are interesting reads.

Kungfulibrary.com Book ()
TSK - Chu Yutsai
A new translation, now Cantonese romantization is used. This version also has extra historical information not present in the PDF version.

Quandoman.com ()
GGFFK - Chu Yutsai
FHSYK - Leung Daat
TSK - Leung daat
Workout Manual - Leung Daat
Again as with the Russian PDF's" , romantizations are done in Mandarin, not Cantonese.

Chinese books published in HK ()
GGFFK - Chu Yutsai
FHSYK - Chu Yutsai
TSK - Chu Yutsai
These are all in Chinese and have the line drawings, no photo's.

Gung Ji Fook Fu Kuen - a comprehensive study guide ( (right click - save target as...))
JE explains the history of this PDF book in a post above.
This version has commentary for each posture from top to bottom by:
- Leung Daat (poem)
- Leung Daat
- Chu Yu Tsai
- E. v.d. Meulen

For all these translations there is a variable quality when it comes to translating them into English. Refer to personal opinions from forum members above to see which translation might suit you best. The price must also be taken into account here as they range from free (GGFFK study guide) to about 15$ (Russian PDF's) up to 60$ (Quandoman).

If anyone else has a resource not yet mentioned here, please do tell so we can make this as complete as possible

[crazedjustice888]

[Bamboo]

[Asmo]

Crazedjustice888, other then the Russian PDF's I don't know any. I agree that the format the group took is very unique. As you can read in the comments it is apparently also one of the better translations out there, and to make it even better it is free! So make good use of it Send your thanks through JE!

Bamboo, with GGFFK I meant Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen, there is no 10 tiger section in there of course FHSYK = Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen and TSK Tit Sin Kuen. I've added those abbreviations on top of the table to be more clear.

I don't think it will be OK to put the 10 tiger part from commercial books out here (Russian PDF's, Quandoman version, etc), you are breaking copyright then which might lead to problems none of us want... I'm pretty sure the original Chinese texts by Chu Yutsai no longer have copyrights over them. I had scanned the 10 tiger section which is what FrankyLau used for the translation posted on the first page of this thread. You can download that section > < for a short while. It includes one move before and one after the section.

[PM]

Number 62. (describing the 10 tigers section):

單虎出洞，用前爪對鼻，後爪在腰，用吊腳馬。轉回頭雙虎爪，連用吊腳單爪，又轉回頭雙虎爪法，轉身車馬又變單虎爪法，轉後雙虎爪，偷馬開山虎即用雙虎爪法，偷馬下山虎。逢虎形雙爪灘腰落馬，逢單虎爪單腳吊馬。二度虎形之法。

[Asmo]

Ahhhh, now it makes sense

[PM]

makes perfectly sense to me

if nobody posts a translation, i will post mine (well, as my Chinese/English still kind of suck, i am kind of shy, u know?) anyway, this part is not so difficult

[Asmo]

[crazedjustice888]