“Six and Half Point Long Pole” (Luk dim bun gwan 六點半桿) is one of the most famous weapon techniques of Souther Chinese martial arts. It is practiced both in “old Wing Cheun ” and modern (Fatsaan) Wing Cheun. “Six and Half Point” is part of our Lam Sai Wing’s Hung Ga Kyun curriculum as well. Grand Master Lam Jou writtes:
“My uncle, Lam Sai Wing, added six and half pole techniques to this. The six and half pole techniques were famous among the Chinese opera groups. These techniques originated from the Siulam monastery and then spread among the Chinese opera groups.”
The left-handed techniques of Luk Dim Bun Gwan were added to the middle of the “Fifth Brother’s Eight Diagram Long Pole (Ng Long Baat Gwa Gwan) set, where the pole is held with the right hand forward. “Six and Half Point Long Pole” is the first weapon we currently teach in our school of Chinese boxing and fencing – simple, but not easy.
I have always wondered, why the hell “six and HALF“? During the years i have received many different answers – some of them made sense, most of did not. Visiting Holland this year, i have asked my good friend, sihingdai and teacher, Master Wong and got a simple, straightforward answer. Mr. Wong told me:
“Well, there are actually seven techniques in Luk Dim Bun Gwan of course. But number seven was in the circles of Chinese secret societies a taboo number because of the treachery of Ma Lingyi, a layman student of Southern Siulam Temple. Brother Ma, also called A Chat (Number Seven), seventh best fighter of the Siulam temple, was expelled from the temple and has later told the Ching army about the secret passages to the temple. Siulam monks were betrayed and the temple was burnt to the ground, at least as the legend goes. That is the reason why the set is called Six and Half Point Long Pole, not Seven Point Long Pole.”
Interesting, isn’t it? What is your story? What is your half point? Add your commentary below!
Check out some old Luk Dim Bun Gwan videos as well, performed by Grand Master Dang Yik and Grand Master Yip Man.
Interesting!
Thank you, Vincent, happy you like the story.
It’s not a mystery. It’s simply “half” a strike at the end of the form.
Hello Phillip, thnx for your comment! i have visited many different Wing Chun families in China and Hong Kong (Yip Man, Gu Lou, Mai Gei Wong, Yun Kei Saan, Se Ying, Chan Yiu Min… ), and almost each of them had different reply as for Bun Dim.
If you don’t translate the name correctly, how can u ever know what it means!
Hello Alexandros, well, interpetation is often based on translation, that is the thing. Please write some ore info, i am interested to learn more! Thnx a lot!
Hi Pavel…The correct translation is 6 Points & Half Pole. No such thing as half a dim! DIm means Dim! Can u strike halfway…does that mean stopping in the air! :00 Yet most are ‘interpreting’, instead of using semantics to understand the real meaning! What do the many different answers u received tell u what bun gwan means….
Hello Alexandros, i respectfully disagree – in Cantonese it really means “Six Points [and] Half [Point]”. My story of “why half” is above – no half, actually seven techniques, but because of the taboo number seven, it is called “six and half”. Anyway, as i said, one of the many interpretations, i am very curious to learn more – i certainly do not have the final answer. Please elaborate on “half pole”, thnx a lot!
Hi Pavel, Like Phillip i also dont go for the online pissing contest. If there can be a platonic sharing of ideas then thats cool. U asked a question… But i also asked u a question… Its just a yum yeurng thing! Give to receive, receive to give 🙂
Sharing the ideas, more research, learning more, that is my approach. Different familes list different “Bun Dim” – Cham Gwan, Hyun Gwan, Dim Gwan… Some say it is just a concept inside all the other techniques,some say the pole makes a certian apttern when it strikes and the half point is hidded there… i Have a nice Chinese book on Luk Dim Bun Gwan witha a list of theories on “Bun Gwan” – if any bod can find somebody to translate it, i can scanit and post it here, and the translation later as well, so we can do more research. All the best!
Alexandros, I speak Cantonese and I’ve had the characters translate by the Chinese professor who teaches Mandarin at out NJ school. 😉
And there is half a strike. You have to be basing your comment on your personal experiences. Even after 42 years in Wing Chun under many different Sifus I never say definitively what Wing Chun has or doesn’t have. There are too many distinct lineages and variable to do so. Do you have a Gwai Ma in your Wing Chun? Some people don’t but it does exist.
Sifu, Gwai Ma? What does that translate to? Just curious
Hi there, i also cannot say what Wing Chun does or does not have as that would mean that i have seen it all and we know that it is like trying to count the stars 🙂 We can even go as far as to say that Wing Chun cannot be boxed in as there is a difference between little ideas and little brains!! :))). If Wing Chun is a collection of pragmatic martial concepts (myriad little ideas) collected then we start to see these concepts everywhere in all styles, its the jiu-sik of these concepts that make it Wing Chun. We have all got 2 arms and 2 legs just like in music there are standard notes and rhythms, using certain notes and certain rhythms will give that sound a certain character (pentatonic – blues sound, myxolydian – jazz sound etc) and so for Martial Arts Styles. WIng Chun has its own Songs 😉 but there are so many concepts that each practitioner chooses to focus on certain concepts that they have become enlightened to…. Perhaps then, your understanding of my comment was based on your personal experiences? Respects.
Actually my comment was based on your saying that there is no such thing as half a strike when clearly there is in some lineages. I just posted a link of Wong Shun Leung demonstrating and explaining the same thing that we do in out lineage. You based you initial statement without knowing the whole truth. That’s why I said your statement was based on you personal experience/training and not base on fact. But it’s all good my Wing Chun brother. Peace.
Gwai Mah is Kneeling Horse. You can see a picture of Sifu Robert Chu doing it in “The Complete Wing Chun” book. I used that example to show that there are different things in the Wing Chun family. We can’t say something doesn’t exist because it’s not in our lineage and/or we’re not familiar with it. It isn’t logical to do so. I always research the meanings of the Wing Chun terms with Chinese educators because sometimes the average native speaker doesn’t have the “academic” grasp of words in their own language. I know Americans born and raised here that are illiterate yet they speak English. Try asking a “scholar” in the Chinese language to explain the character Siu Nim/Lim Tau. You’ll be surprised at what you hear them say.
The Kneeling horse is in the Classic Leung Sheung form through Ken Cheung. Kneeling is a must if you’re about to get your head taken off, or if you to ground a heavy blow. thanks for the chinese term 🙂
One more thing. I didn’t join this group/forum to have a pissing contest. I joined because I love Wing Chun and feel as though we are all family. None of us has all the answers. I’ve studied with 4 students of Yip Man and other Wing Chun Sifus since 1970 without a pause in my training. And I still don’t know it all.
With regard to the half strike. It’s a metaphorical term. Chinese martial arts culture has lots of them. Especially in the Southern arts I studied like Hung Ga, Bak Mei, and Juk Lum Tong Long.
In the video of the long pole techniques by Grandmaster Yip Man, the late grandmaster demonstrates the form (which includes more than 7 movements). However he emphasizes the 7 key movements (6 “full” one “half” movement). 1. Biu
2. Tan
3. Tiu/Chau
4. Dang
5. Huen Kom
6. Boot
7. Bun Je Lan
Number 7 is the “half fence” movement
Excellent, thx for your cooment!
there is a video of Grandmaster Yip Man performing more than seven (or one) movements with the long pole. Do I just live under a rock or am I missing something?
Here’s Wong Shun Leung explaining the half “bun”f strike. It’s exactly what I teach. So half strike does exist in Wing Chun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNCsvtkvt3M&feature=youtu.be
Very interesting, thank you!
The link I just posted can be found on youtube under the title: sigung Wong and sifu Nino.
@[732902107:2048:Sifu Phillip Redmond]: If nothing else, it’s quite interesting to note how different lineages interpret information, or how some folks who are particularly partisan to a point-of-view will insist that their interpretation of techniques which may have a common origin are correct or “the most correct” and others are simply wrong. At the end of the day, if a technique doesn’t hold up in application or only works under very controlled and specific circumstances, I’d question whether it was a useful or valid technique to begin with.
Excellent comment, thank you Jonathan! I like stories, but well, there is a reason why my school is called “Practical Hung Kyun”
Pavel, I loved training in Hung Kuen (I like your romanization better, especially how you romanized cheun), it made me strong.
@[1283594517:2048:Jonathan S. Ross] I’ve been through many debates like this over the years. Back in the day people only had one idea of Wing Chun. many even thought that Yip Man was the Grandmaster of all Wing Chun until other legitimate were brought to the public. Back in the 80’s people thought that all Wing Chun stood square and punched down the middle. Then all of a sudden Leung Jan’s Pien San (side body) Wing Chun was made public. Someone once told me that Wing Chun doesn’t fight on the blindside. Now there’s a video of Sifu Chan Chee Man demonstrating and explaining how Yip Man taught him to take the blindside if the opponent is too fast for you. I understand that people respect an love their lineages. But I’ve been doing this longer than some of them have been alive. NYC Chinatown had lots of Wing Chun teachers from Hong Kong since the 70’s. I studied with ALL of them. So when people say this of that about Wing Chun I sometimes chuckle to myself but I stay diplomatic about my responses to them.
Respects to all. Its better for us to share without presuming what is fact/experience. Phillip, 42 years in Wing Chun art is truly admirable, Cheng-Respect Bro! Pavel, its fine to disagree, I’m not pushing my ideas on anyone, in fact if I see that people are not humble, open minded ‘Si’ scholars of language and pragmatic martial art then we wouldn’t have anything in common. End of.
So Pavel, let me explain one more time my definition which comes from translating Chinese literature and using Chinese Martial Art! (Hope it helps you out a little). (Open your mind – Martial Artist trains Spirit as well – not afraid of taboos ;). Luk – Six. Dim – Point. Bun – Half. Gwan – Pole. Yes u can Dim with Bun Gwan- its not just for playing. Yes Bun is kinda metaphorical in that when we hold the Gwan throughout the first sets – its near the end of ONE side of the pole, hands facing different directions-Therefore we use the WHOLE length of the POLE with the TIP (point) to DIM. (Hitting with the pole not the tip is destructive but its NOT penetrating ie killing). Bun Gwan being metaphorical is explained that in last sets we hold the pole towards middle (hands facing same directions) so we can use BOTH ends of the pole, metaphorically we cut the pole in 2 HALVES. This is a much closer/shorter range of pole application. LIke flipping knives back. Pavel this is how I Explain it and how I USE it.. A pole has TWO ENDS! Using ONE end is longer range and using BOTH ends (like using BOTH HALVES of the pole not as ONE LENGTH) is shorter ranges. This is why we cannot rely on just translators to define our Martial Arts practice. Peace.
Hello Alexandros, very interesting info, thx a lot!
Not saying its right or wrong, but I’ve heard the half point is essential a huen with the pole.
Interesting. My sifu is actually a Bak Siulam master, but in his youth in Hong Kong, he learned from a friend a pole form from Hung Gar called “6,5 Fisherman Staff”. His explanation is because in the form we repeat a technique 3 times for each side, and one in the middle, thus 6 and a half.
Interesting, thank you!
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Check out my new article on Hung Kyun “Six and Half Point Long Pole” here: http://practicalhungkyun.com/2013/01/six-and-half-point-long-pole-luk-dim-bun-gwan/.
“Mystery of the Half-Point”. That’s how they keep you guessing, and then…WHACK!!! 😀
Ha ha ha 🙂
the half point in Tang Yik Weng Chun is 纏, “chin” which is a curling movement, half circle.
Grazie Damaso, tu si che mi capisci 😀