Sounds

[Itinerant_Phenomenologist]

JE: Not to belabour the point, but is it the actual "sound" that is important or the "breath" that is important? I've heard some say that the sounds help you attain a specific frame of mind which better facilitates cohesive body+breath expression. However, just like how a person can be extremely angry and frustrated, but perfectly calm and orderly in action, how important is sound to purposefully foster that state of mind/body unity?

As I mentioned above, and perhaps I misunderstand you for it may be your point as well, the exaggerated sounds are good as a starting point to help you recognize the breathing and body mechanics...but ultimately they are like training wheels; you need them when you first learn to ride a bike to help you gain that sense of balance, but then you take them off and you can still ride your bike perfectly as you did with the training wheels.

[JE]

IP,

As I read your text I would say you have basically heard two theories. One that the sounds are important and two that their importance diminishes as our skill level (understanding) increases. Basically I agree with both of these statements, although they are somewhat contradictory.

To understand the importance or function of sound in TSK we need to understand the physiology of the body per Chinese medicine. In other words we need to understand the Chinese POV on how our body functions and what our "body" is. In understanding those details the function of sound, movement, and state of mind becomes more clear. The beauty of TSK from my perspective is that it includes all three of these. A holy trinity if you will... Body, Breath, Mind/Spirit. Saam1 Gaau3 三教.

I could go on and on about each of these in how they relate to TSK but this would end up becoming a many paged email... Breath is definitely important and the production of sounds obviously requires specific types of breathing, but sounds are more than just breathing and so although there is overlap between the two they are not the exact same things and we should not treat them as such (at least from my perspective).

Peace,
Justin

[Asmo]

I was just thinking about that. If you consider sounds eventually not necessary then I wonder if you see TSK only as a martial chi gong as sounds also have other benefits, more in the lines of TCM...

But what do I know

[JE]

I suppose that depends on what your definition of "Martial Chi Gong" is.

TSK is definitely a hei gong exercise. There are movements which can have direct martial applications. The concepts are definitely applied martially. And the power trained is definitely applied martially. But it can also be looked at as a health exercise and it's practice can help stimulate spiritual development - but all of those concepts are contained within the Chinese view of that body and spirit cannot be separated.

[Itinerant_Phenomenologist]

[Asmo]

[JE]

[Itinerant_Phenomenologist]

[JE]

[ironpalm]

[Itinerant_Phenomenologist]

Just wanted to say that I have every intention to reply... but I'm absolutely swamped with my own readings and writings for law right now. I just didn't want to leave the impression that I was being rude and ignoring things I didn't like to read/hear etc.

Have a nice day.

[Daifong]

Gentlemen, gentlemen...

I feel this issue's getting argued in the court, haha...

Looking forward to counsel's full and qualified rebuttal then!

[Mig]

What are the sounds that you all describe? Let's take either the beginning of 5 animals 5 forms or TSK and then I see different people from different lineages utter different sounds and the laugh sounds more than a mocking sound. Do we have the name of those sounds in Chinese. Thanks to everybody the thread was quite interesting.

Mig