Sounds

[Asmo]

[PM]

[Asmo]

[Daifong]

Although he has been counted as a LSW alumnus who was privy to TSK training, I don't believe that Chu Yujaai actually understood the entire Tit Sin Kyun. His book is all turned around, with movements and sections out of place...and nineteen tones!?

[Kenneth]

[Frank Bolte]

[Kenneth]

[Asmo]

[Itinerant_Phenomenologist]

I think its already been mentioned but I'll throw in my two cents for what its worth:

When my uncle taught me awhile back, he said that the sounds are essential. After I learned all the sounds and practiced with them for a long while, he told me the sounds are not essential. [insert my slight confusion]

The key is the muscular contractions/relaxations of stomach/diaphragm/neck/etc area when making the associated sounds. You can get the same internal body mechanics with just breath alone. However, the way the specific sounds are emitted, coupled with the external physical bodily actions, forces you to inhale/exhale in that specific way which leads to those specific contractions/relaxations.

I asked why they teach with sounds at all if you can do it with just breath alone. He said "short cut". It's hard to consciously manifest those specific internal mechanics without any motivation. However, the "hissing", the "laughing", the "deep" sounds etc that some say are associated with emotions/mental states, when done "naturally" (not "forced" [sounds weird since you are still artificially inducing them]) more readily allows your body to engage in those internal mechanics in a much more reliable fashion.

After you do those for a long time, you recognize the patterns and you can then phase out the literal sounds while still maintaining the correct diaphragmatic motions, neck tension/relaxation and all the other internal mechanics normally associated with the sounds.

But as I said... this is just what little information I managed to glean from my uncle while he was still teaching me. Can't ask him anymore since he's already passed so I'm just muddling along the best I can. But I've been practicing in this fashion for awhile now and even if I can't say I feel invincible with Tit Sien, though I can say that it makes me feel stronger... I can at least state that I haven't suffered random hemorrhaging, sleeplessness, anxiety, headaches and all the other weird things that people associate with incorrect chi kung exercises.

Oh and when I say "breath alone", I don't mean the breathing is completely silent. There is a level of exaggeration, but only slightly.

Obviously... I admit that I might be 100% wrong.

[Asmo]

Interesting IP.

Just a thought: I noticed at the start of the TSK, in the opening section, we (at least in our lineage) make a long and low HMMMMMMM sound. It feels very calming. It relaxes myself and I feel my chest vibrating. No coincidence IMHO its at the start of the form.

Although not a buddhist I like putting ona mantra from time to time, again, its relaxing. No other reason really.

But then I noticed, the same tone HMMMMMM is present in many mantra's too. Coincidence? Maybe. But the same effect can't be replicated using breath alone.

[Kenneth]

[PM]

IP: very good analysis, and very coherent with my personal experience and understanding of tsk

Kenneth: another Ng Gwun member on the forum, cool, welcome, thank you for your contribution, i am looking forward to read more!

[Itinerant_Phenomenologist]

[Kenneth]

[JE]

Within our lineage sounds play an very important role in the training of TSK. For us, there are three aspects that need to be addressed - body, mind, and breath. Body is related to posture and movement. Mind is related to the feeling gan. Sounds regulate our breathing patterns.

However there is always the story of loosing sight of the moon because we are focused on the finger pointing at it..

TSK is beautiful but, at least for the lineage I come from, it is a tool to cultivate change in the body, mind, and spirit. Once you understand that (ie, have practiced TSK long enough) you can start to modify your practice to personal needs or goals.

This concept is pretty standard within classical Chinese medicine and other arts as well. Herbal formulas, acupuncture point prescriptions, etc are not formulas in the same way we use them in the West. They are teaching tools designed to teach concepts that each person must find a personal adaptation for.

I know my practice of TSK isn't what it was one year ago, let alone five or ten years ago. If it doesn't evolve my teacher would say I'm doing something very wrong.