An earnest discussion of Executioners From Shaolin

[A Joyful Process]

Ok, I can't really bring myself to call it Executioners... let's go by its indigenous original title "Hung Hei Goon", or however you may romanise the name.

So anyway, from the little I know of the hung kyun style, I've come to the conclusion that this film is as important a document as any other, and would endeavour to further understand that which it considers regarding the art.
Most reviews and film site discussions seem to totally miss the point of it, its metaphors, concepts & preoccupations.

So, the film is essentially about Fu Hok, this much I follow, Hung Man Ting, created as embodiment of the style's sides... much I get the more I learn, but it loses me in part...

So, whilst somewhat broad, I would like to understand where it draws some of its concepts I'm not grasping - chiefly...

I take it that it draws on some sort of acupuncture meridian concept in its portrayal of Bak Mei? Why is he portrayed as only defeatable between 1 & 3 pm or so? This I don't understand...

Same with the dummy with the pachinko looking balls... I have trouble grasping this...

Even if you may consider some of the film's execution vastly exaggerated, is it possible to begin this discussion with some of the foundation behind these ideas... or any other conceivable points of interest.

[vtml]

I believe that 1pm to 3pm has something to do with Qi. Even for a Chinese like myself, I have trouble understanding where they get that idea from in the movie.

[jow yeroc]

Sorry, i wouldn't have much meaningful to offer other than this is still one of my favorite flicks. Just watched it again recently.

[Asmo]

In traditional Chinese medicine the flow of Chi changes with the seasons and time of the day. There are 12 meridians in the body who are all connected in such a way that they form one big loop. During the day times the chi flows most strongly in front of the body, and at night on the back of the body.



This flow makes it so that every few hours the strong chi flow moves from one meridian to the next. Between 1 and 3PM it is flowing through the Stomach channel.

If you want to know more about this subject I suggest the book Qigong for Health and Martial Arts by Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming where I made a subtraction from for the above.

That said, expecting to learn this for martial arts is quite unrealistic. In a fight, be happy to block and be able to take back the initiative Knowing what time of the day so what acupoint to hit on what channel is really not too realistic. Most of the points are also quite deep into the body and require some precision and deep hitting... Anyone who spars know its already quite hard to hit someone who is moving with an entire fist on his head. Let alone a finger into a specific spot on the body...

[Asmo]

BTW, this is the movie where some guy a few years claimed lineage from its story... The way the form is made in the movie by combining the tiger and crane is fictional, made up for the movie.

Its a cool movie, but don't see it as historically accurate or anything

[PM]

[Asmo]

[PM]

[Frank Bolte]

[PM]

[laukarfei]

ugh..wong kiew kit, what a character...

in the end i love these movies and they wouldnt exist if it werent for the stories so..keep tellin stories i guess im gonna make a thread for people to put there fav clips from fighting movies not just vintage but all of em

[A Joyful Process]

Interesting stuff, I assumed that Fu Hok as commonly known had been orchestrated by WFH, & Hung Man Ting was a metaphorical creation of Lau Kar Leung to represent it... lots more to learn and understand for me.

I think it's interesting how in the movie part of the tiger manual HMD learns from is missing & he has to sub his own creativity into its completion... I think that ties in a little to the type of thing LKL promotes in the latter half of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqxy5R9P ... re=channel I guess.

Will have to check out that book you mentioned Asmo, actually saw it on a shop shelf recently thinking about it - will go back for it.

I don't know, but I've been finding that some of the numerous postural tenets that make up a structure of the style have been eased into place for me with a very very basic understanding of meridians (the time of day thing is new to me), and equally so, & probably my own limited bastardisations, daoyin stuff. Don't know if I can explain it well, or even if I'm on the right tracks.
The way this movie touches on a few concepts made me curious, especially the way some of it seems metaphorically representaive.

Will have a pour over those links later, cheers PM.

[vtml]

Another thing I don't understand is how there was technology back in the days to create that wooden dummy with those tiny little iron balls

[Cola di Montecorso]