ground techniques in HungKyun

[TenTigers]

[shuen]

[Asmo]

[PM]

just couple of (seemingly contradictory) notes:

"90% of the fights end up on the ground" - just a marketing myth made in Graciesland, i agree with TT

- watch MMA today, much more stand up game then ever. everybody works on take down defense (do you? we do)

- however, if the guy is skilled grappler, and wants to take the game to the ground, he will, sooner or later. 90% of the opponents out here are not.

- claws/fingers to the eyes, throat, groin: easily said, harder to be done. your opponent can do the same, and he has advantage of beng in superior positon. that is why i said - positioning drills are the most essentials aspect of the game. same goes for the clinch btw.

[DimitryK]

[vaulander]

Yes, a lot of fights go to the ground. Because people take it there. As for me, being skinny and about the same bodyweight as a fly after a big dinner, don't want to go down there where size and strength is far more of a factor. When I was a kid, I was in Judo. Always paired up with the obese kid. You get quick and slippery really fast in those circumstances. All my life, bigger and stronger opponents. Groundgames limit my mobility and speed. Striking upwards on your back is not efficient. Trying to lift someone heavier than you off your chest isn't easy even if they sit still.

[laukarfei]

you know, people can say whatever they want, but the truth is the gracies did go from dojo to dojo and kwoon to kwoon what have you and beat those guys down, all of them. and look how good the gracies stand up is lolo

in modern mma, the best fighters are grapplers so whoever thinks there isnt alot of grappling is watching to much ufc and not enough dream, wec, strike force, sengoku etc

most fights in mma are won by GNP or submission or ref stoppage by strikes on the ground. you see more stand up because styles make fights, match makers make exciting fights by putting people together who will probably knock one another out or work hard on the group for a ko or submission or just exciting fight

one of the best fighters in the world gegard mousasi just got tooled by king mo lawal because he slept on his wrestling and look what happens. those of you who say oh its sport he got points for his take downs bla bla

go fight a grappler on the concrete and tell me how you feel after the first slam or take down. BJJ teaches the same things, we practice slams, throws bla bla.

knowing positions and whatnot is great better then knowing nothing. the bottom line is its not the techniques its the conditioning and athleticism of grapplers that makes them really good, i mean circling around and throwing punches or bridging and poking people in the eyes, claws and all this is great but if i can punch miss and close the gap and slam someone on the concrete id rather do that then play around on the street

[ginosifu]

Laukarfei,
Let me say that there are some parts that I agree with you and some that I do not. Just because Gracies have gone to other schools and whooped on peeps does not mean grappling the ultimate in fighting. I had this same argument with the folks over at kungfumag.

My argument would be versus people with equal skill to mma fighter.

The venue or the rules will govern who is going to have an advantrage or not. The Octagon was created by the Gracies because it works for there purpose. They close on a fighter, trap him up against a cage and then GNP!

If the rules were a bit different they would not have the advantage. I have Faught on the platform and Judged Lei Tal (Platform Fighting). I have seen great fighters lose, not because they were not skilled, but because they did not know the rules of Lei Tai. I have seen Awesome specticales of athletes get pushed off the Lei Tai and lose the Match.

Another example of the venue or rules changing is street fighting. Although MMA fighters are skilled at what they do, if they met a veteran street thug who was skilled with a knife, they might get some punches in they might even kick the crap out the guy. However, the street thug will probably put some holes in the MMA guy.

Another example is 1 guy is approached by 4 thugs at his car. Do you grapple with 1 on the ground while the other 3 stomp on your head? Martial arts training should cover all aspects of self defense. Whether is be on the street or in the ring. Your martial arts should cover long range, short range, grappling, throwing, weapons etc etc.

MMA fighters are good at what they do no doubt. However my martial arts is about overall skill to live thru someone that actually is trying to kill me. I have been lucky enough to find a teacher whom has taught me ground fighting, stand up, Chin na, Shuai Chiao, knife, gun etc etc.

Laukarfei: MMA is good but is not the ultimate

[Yogicmotion]

if you are in a fight were it is 4 to 1 chances are no matter how skilled you you should run.

also just to be clear the gracies are submission artists not GNP guys. If you watch the old UFC bouts, there where no weight classes and very little rules.

I still stand that one should know ground skills. It will save your life.

[laukarfei]

my feelings towards street fighting have been stated before, i dont advocate it, friends of mine have stabbed people for such petty things, some of my friends have been stabbed lol. my sister and brother have both had guns drawn on them and i know people who have been KILLED for very little.

i dont think any martial art or school or program should instill the idea that you can prepare yourself for a knife attack and that you should do this that and the third for defense against it. are there ways to disarm and control and escape those situations and should they be taught YES but the emphasis should be #1 u see a weapon look for the exit

as for the octagon, the gracies didnt design it but does it give grapplers an advantage yes i believe so. but honestly grapplers did just aswell in a ring like pride, dream etc

and what the gracies accomplished in the early 90s in schools all around the world cannot be denied espcially like i said earlier with their LACK of striking ability.

anyone whos trained in bjj not played around with a friend or done a few things with some guy who knows submissions but anyone whos trained BJJ under a qualified teacher day in and day out knows damn well the effectiveness of the style and the benefits of training it

all styles make you healthy, all good teachers dont advocate fighting and brutality and disrespect and in the end we should all elevate each other

[DimitryK]

[ginosifu]

[laukarfei]

[ginosifu]

[vaulander]