Question for anyone who has trained in both Hung Ga and CLF?

[18energies]

[Asmo]

Not sure if I'm allowed to react as I never trained CLF, but something in your question triggered this response: I can assure you that the bridges in Hung Kuen are also more 'concepts/strategies rather than actual techniques'.

There are some that take things like the posters out there far too literal. I've even seen video's where one would simply take the pose of a technique (without an opponent and without showing the actual technique) then name it as a certain bridge, going like this through all 12 bridges.

Bridges are all about contact between two opponent and the way energy is being transmitted/applied between the two through that bridge.

[PM]

well, the posters (sap jyut sa, 12 bridges... ) are imho not any good

as for CLF, i have many good CLF friends, but i have never heard about CLF 12 bridges (CLF 10 seed techniques, well, different story)

can you please post a link to that article if it is online, or scan it and post it here? thnx!

[18energies]

PM,

Here is a cut and paste of the article..I cant' remember how I came across it. I believe the author made a mistake when he said " HG 10 bridge hands"(perhaps he meant 10 killing hands instead).

"The Essence of CLF

When the above is studied in conjunction with CLF's 12 Bridge Hands, the essence of CLF is revealed. CLF's 12 Kiu Sau, unlike Hung Gar's 10 Kiu Sau, is not a description of the actual hand bridging techniques but rather bridging strategies. Kiu is a term common in Southern kung fu forms which literally means "bridge"; bridging being an essential part of closing and bridging the gap in fighting. The twelve primary kiu sau or bridge hands describe the key to the bridging tactics of CLF. These are: chuen kiu (drilling bridge), poon kiu (lower deflecting bridge), gung kiu (offensive bridge), kwun kiu (rolling/deflecting bridge), gort kiu (cutting or slicing bridge), yong kiu, darm kiu (lifting bridge), look kiu (reeling bridge), chum kiu (sinking bridge), lao kiu (scooping bridge), chi kiu (sticking bridge), and larp kiu (grabbing bridge)."

The web address from the above cut and paste is as follows: http://ec-ma.blogspot.com/2007_06_01_archive.html

I belive you must scroll down to find the entire text.

What would be especially interesting(this is an open invitation I guess) is..if someone could post a poster/diagram of the CLF bridge hands(if such a poster is available) as I mentioned above in the same way of paralleling my request of the Hung Ga killing hands/bridge hands. Perhaps then a template for seeing how the bridges of both styles may reach a point of convergence could be achieved.

I'm still relatively new on this forum. It is good to be among you all..

Respectfully,
18 e

[vaulander]

Perhaps the writer was not very well versed about Hung Gar. It is very easy to give something five minutes and think one has some sort of understanding of it. When people who has decades of training say they still find new things hidden in old forms one can see that a quick 'blanket' statement is absurd. To loosely quote Marc MacYoung, techniques are just expressions of fundamentals and concepts. Certain techniques might show things easier, so they are more common. That does NOT mean it's the only way to manifest a particular fundamental/concept/bridge.

I find the bridges of CLF interesting though. Drilling and Slicing bridges?
V.

[TenTigers]

this was brought up on the KFO forum and Robert Chu -Chusaulei had a good comment on how the techniques overlap.
I agree that the author does not seem to have a working knowledge of Hung Kuen, as he treats the twelve Bridges as specific techniques, rather than qualities of energy and concepts. He may have gleaned his info from articles and posters.
Having studied both Hung-Ga and CLF (although briefly) I see them as sister styles from a common origin. In many cases, CLF may have been developed as a kuen faht answer to Hung-Ga's Gung-Faht forms methods.
So, I got this theory....
Y'see, many moons ago, in a Hung Kuen school,there was this rebellious upstart, who liked to fight, named Chang Heung.
So, being a fighter, he started playing his forms the way he fought, rather than as conceptual textbooks of the system.
"One breath, one strike" was not his cup of tea.
His Sifu got all bent outta shape and said, "Hey, you can't do that. It's not our way. We've been doing it this way for years. That's NOT Hung-Ga! Get outta hear with that stuff."
So Chan answered,"Fine then. I'll call it something else! I'm outta here!"
The rest is HIS story.

[18energies]

Actually..your theory on how CLF may have spawned from HK may have truth to it. It was believed by some that Chan Heung may himself have studied Hung Ga.

It was also believed that(was it Wong Fei Hung? If not it was one of the key figures in Hung's development) studied Choy Li Fut.

When I watch Grandmaster Doc Fai Wong performing CLFs 5 animal set..some of the moves seem identical such as "tiger descends mountain". Some others such as "tiger looking backward"..may be in some Hung sets..but I can't say..

Thank you all for your fine responses..

[TenTigers]

who said I was joking?
I had heard that Chan Heung had studied Hung Kuen and also that Wong Fei-Hung may have trained CLF as well.
Not so far fetched.

[LohHakSi_HSCLF]

All of old gung fu masters may studied themself all styles:-))))

But big differences is touch or study!!!!

Have a nice time.