saam sing training through pain

[Xiaobian]

So I have heard differing opinions on this, but how long did y'all generally wait between iron body sessions?

Some people I ask tell me to wait until the pain is gone and the bones have repaired before doing it again. Some people say to do it every day.

The same question goes for muscle training etc. My sifu has always told me to put one or two days between each training session so that my body has time to heal. However, I always feel that if I wait a few days, my body gets stiff and the pain is more intense.

Personally, I try to stretch every day, train my wugong about 2-3 days a week, and iron body once per 1-2 weeks.

Suggestions? Opinions?

[laukarfei]

[Xiaobian]

[ironpalm]

[Xiaobian]

[ironpalm]

[Xiaobian]

The reason I am asking is because I usually wait until my arms are totally recovered between training sessions. But I am wondering if I should just dial down the intensity, and do it every other day.

I have always thought that bones need a special amount of time to heal and rebuild. Longer than muscle. For that reason, I only do iron arm sessions once a week at shortest.

Yes, I have some jow, but I usually don't use it unless I think it is absolutely necessary. Should I use it all the time regardless of how bad the arm is?

[SifuYui]

If the bruise is tender to the touch (just touching or a light press), then let it heal till it doesn't hurt to the touch. If it's just bruised then by all means wait a day or two and go back at it. Dit Da Jow is good for both of these types of bruises so always use it after bruising. Even on the tender ones - put it on lightly and when it's not tender, rub it in. You don't want to hit a bruise that is tender, you'll only hurt yourself more and it may end up being a long term problem. By letting your injuries heal a little before going at it again will make you stronger; but injuring an injury will only make you weaker.

Train smarter and harder

Yui

[TenTigers]

da sam sing is not supposed to be done to the point of bruising. The bones are hardened based on Wolf's Law-gradual and continuous stress placed upon a bone will increase its density. The key word is gradual. If you don't do it gradual, how can you do it continuously? The more you bruise, the longer you need to heal. It's a slow process.
Our da sam sing is a six year process. The first two years, closed fists arms tensed. The second two years, hands open and arms relaxed-deeper penetration. The third two years, etc the hand closes and tenses moment of impact and they are more attack oriented. Dit Da Jow is used at all sessions, before and after.
"Trust the process"

[Xiaobian]

yea, this is why I posted this question. It seems to me to be difficult to NOT bruise the arms a teensy bit while da saam sing. From what I understand, each hit should be solid (not bouncing off the pole). But I have never heard of anyone doing only a couple sets of da saam sing and then waiting a day or so.

Why has my shifu been instructing my saam sing the way he has? I do not know. I suspect he has his reasons (possibly because we only used to meet once a week). Maybe he thinks my bones are stronger than they are. Anyway, I at least never compound the injury. The question is whether it is better to do 20-something sets of saam sing and then wait a week, or do only a couple sets each day.

The problem, from my perspective, of doing it as gradually as you suggest is that, at the point in my training when I begin iron body, the blood is already pulsing hot through my body and I cannot tell what my arm's limits are---I feel invincible. The only way I know it's time to stop is either I begin to feel it in my bones, or I can see the red tint up my arm.

This is all very interesting and helpful responses, so I thank you masters for your replies.

[PM]

our methodology for serious bridge conditioning:

- use dit da jau before and after
- avoid bruises as much as you can, ie. just feel the impact, but it should not be painful
- train preferably with "live partner" (sang jong) instead of "dead pole" (sei jong)
- 5 minutes twice a day is absolute minimum, 20-30 minutes twice a day are optimal. 7 days in a week
- when you get a massive bruise (which you should not if you follow the methodology), stop practicing until its healed
- practice complemental exercises like "three extensions" (saam jin sau), "golden bridge" (gam kiu), "pulling the ratta ring" (laai tang hyun), pole throwing and catching, first two sectiosn of gjffk lowly, one by one, or first five sections of fhsyk, or dragon part of nyk/syk, or tsk. finish the exercise with loose arm circles and dit da massage

the key to the success is everyday practice and gradual progress

[laukarfei]

im the one that said massive bruise he didnt say anything about it. but those are the only ones id worry about.

i dont agree with ten tigers at all about his training for "iron arm" i dont think you should tense your arm at all doing this exercise..ever.

i think pm was pretty right on although i think if you make sure your good and warmed up before hand, and you should do the arm swings you find in IP those are very good to do period, and work the threading of the kiu sao and the most important besides massage and dit da jow to me is the standing post, that really has the better effect imo.

but thats my oppinion. when it comes to the concrete i dont know what your talking about, but 2/3 of iron body from my experience was the qi gong and the massage, the hitting is always gradual

but you cant be weak minded about the training

but people are different to, bony guys get good hits in even though they may not have as much experience or even harder arms and honestly da sam sing is an exercise for more then conditioning, to me the conditioning was secondary to the real skills i developed from that exercise and i learned that fast

ive hit the poles aswell thats straight conditioning and thats harder to do, but you should recover quicker from that training then from a human and you should be stronger not continously weaker

[laukarfei]

also, not to start a bunch of stuff but i dont like what iron palm said about;
"Don't try to keep up with your sifu, train at your own pace."

why not? keep up was never in my mind, if i cant be better then him then what am i doing there. master worship is bullshit. hes a man who spends his time teaching others how to understand the system and themselves, great, thats it not your father not your "master"

if we as martial artists cant be better then the previous generation that teaches us what hope is there for the art we practice. and not talking abuot in 10 million years when they are dead and buried, you either have it or you dont, and not everyone will be better then the teacher but if your the serious student you shouldnt be the one to be the weaker of the two, he should fear your fist not the other way around

[SifuYui]

Laukarfei, I think you've misinterpreted what Iron Palm is saying. I interpret it as don't go crazy trying to keep up with your sifu when he/she's had many more years of training and you're new; you can get hurt trying. Train and build up to it is what everyone, including yourself, is saying. You don't want some newbie going crazy hitting sifu's arm in Da Saam Sing trying to keep up if it's seriously hurting them; doing in a short amount of time what took his sifu years to build up to. Later on, sure go at it with your sifu because you've built up the forearm already. By this point you're at the next level in training anyway.

Yui

[Xiaobian]