Tiger & Crane Demo

[Jmoon07]

[markt]

[PM]

[Itinerant_Phenomenologist]

[YHGSKF]

[markt]

[Itinerant_Phenomenologist]

[PM]

[vaulander]

[Jmoon07]

[markt]

I am aware of differences between lineages of course ... but to me this form is significantly different from the other [more commonly known] HK families that I have seen.

You can see that the overall frame and sequence is similar, but there are many things missing when compared to the version that I practice, and of course quite a few different things added. From my perspective some of the things that I see missing, I see as essential to HK ...my HK anyway, not trying to sound arrogant... .

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying something like this is not fhsyk, or this couldn't come from HK.. I am curious about how or why it becomes so different in such a short time.. wonder if the reasons for some of the differences have been passed down over time as well ? Like, it was done like this, but we do it this way because it fits with Black Tiger more... etc..

I am also curious about which aspects of HK are taught as a prerequisite for the Black Tiger.. are other forms like Gung Ji, Tit Sin also taught ? Do you guys also train sam sing, etc.. ?

[Jmoon07]

I am not sure I can agree with your phrasing of words. You use the term "but there are many things missing when compared to the version that I practice, and of course quite a few different things added" quote

Now I must ask what makes you feel anything is missing or things were added. It leads me to ask then maybe is it not the version you have learned is missing or has been added to. How are you so sure the version you practice is an exact replica of the original. Maybe I will see you perform and feel you have something missing or changed. When you search the web or even notice in competition you will notice sometimes even schools within the same lineage will perform it differently suiting either to the Sifu's interpretation or the flavor he may have for what he is teaching.
From reading your post I hope you are a highly decorated Sifu if not Sigung in HK because if you are not , you surely carry yourself as one. Before you are so sure about how pure and untainted your HK may or may not be, I recommend you interview your Teacher's , Teacher and Teacher before him to fully be sure whether or not your version is the exact replica of the original.
I am not here to get into politics for the art I practice is a pure and spiritual art which is what Kung Fu should be and is often forgotten by many. I am sure if I saw your version of this form I would also feel things were missing but not would be so quick to point my finger at your teacher and accuse his teachers and the teachers before him of changing something I did not witness for myself since day one. If you were there since day one send Wong Fei Hung my regards.

Can you please post a link to the version you have learned? It is only fair to share with me as I have shared with you

[markt]

Ok.. this is exactly the type of response I was hoping to avoid. Maybe I could have been more tactful.. anyway, to explain :

I said "when compared to the version that I practice" .. and I did NOT say "when compared to the original"...

I am not saying mine is better, or an exact replica of the original, whatever..

Perhaps I did not emphasize enough or phrase in the best way.

The difference is there regardless (to clarify again : I am not saying different = bad).

But to me, it would be more logical that HK practiced within another style would be more likely to change than HK practiced alone. Whether that is true or not, it seems more logical to me. Also, other families of HK are more similar to each other than to this demo.

Let me stop here again and clarify. I am not saying this is a bad thing.

So, my assumption may very well be incorrect.. is it? Regardless, I find the differences that occur over time interesting. I was really just wondering about the Black Tiger influence on the HK that you train.. and which aspects of HK are emphasized..

My opinion on change is that change can be good or bad, depending on the reason for the change.
Sometimes things change because someone forgets and things get lost. Sometimes things change because someone has new ideas and they get incorporated.

In my experience, my sifu has showed me a couple things that he has changed. He explained the reason why he changed them and also showed me the way he was originally taught. If I pass it on, I will explain in the same way because it will preserve that knowledge..

So... this is the type of thing I was interested in hearing about.. if you don't mind sharing.
For example... maybe there is a reason why the kiu sau is supplemented with the retracting tiger claw instead of moving the kiu sau back ?

[markt]

Wikipedia states that "...Wong Moon Toy mastered Hung Gar under Lam Sai Wing...."

If this information is correct, then the HK of Black Tiger should be very close to the other students of Lam Sai Wing ?

But... the other branches under Lam Sai Wing do look very similar.
Lam Family, Chiu Family, Chan Honjung family, Lau family all look so similar, but the Black Tiger looks different ?

I hardly think it is rude of me to suggest something has changed... actually it should be obvious.

[Rising Crane]