banners in hung ka

[Mig]

[PM]

hi Mig, i do not know exactly what you mean, cna you post a link with an example please?

[Mig]

If you look at Chao chiling, Lam jo banners their banners are different and some are similar or different from other styles. Usually, you can see their last name printed, Hungka or fukhok but what I am intrigued is about the symbols. Any ideas? or just another decoration without any underlying meaning.

Thanks,

Mig

[Asmo]

The seven dots connected by lines is the 7 stars. They usually refer to the stars of the big dipper. That stellation plays a big role in Taoism. I am not so versed in lion dancing but in kungfu schools (or at least southern schools) it is linked again to lion dancing. I heard it being referred to as "our lion dance flag" for example. There is also stepping and drumming rythems linked to the 7 stars.

Maybe someone who knows more about lion dancing can explain more/better then I can.

[PM]

at this image, the flag says simply: Lam Jou. in the midle, there is a diamond shape with the characters "tiger and crane" in it.




flags of Grandmasters Lam Chun Fai and Lam Chun Sing (and me ten years ago, ha ha )





in the background a flag of my school, which i have received from my sifu. name on my school on it, my name, tiger crane logo and a name of my sifu

[Asmo]

To get back to Mig's original question, why a diamond shape Pavel? There should be a reason why this was chosen to fit the fu hok characters in.

[TenTigers]

quite possibly inspired by the seal of Hung Mun, which is a triangle with the character,"Hung" written inside,which looks similar to the upper part of the diamond.

[Asmo]

Thanks TT, that was my hunch as well but wasn't sure.

[PM]

this is what TT means:



from http://www.lghk.org/en/history/founders.htm

however, i have never heard in our gungfu family there is any connection of the tiger crane logo and the Hung Mun "logo"

the history info i have heard: Lam Saiwing's school logo was a circle with the Chinese characters "Lam Gwun" (Lam's [Martial Arts] Gym):



from http://www.lghk.org/en/history/index.htm

when Grandmaster Lam Jou, nephew of Lam Saiwing, took over both branch schools and later also the main school, he has changed the name of the school/association and also the logo. it is called fu hok jeung, and actually it is not a diamond but olive. it was designed by Leung Winghaang, Lam Jou's classmate and sworn brother. see bellow:




sidenote: interesting, Lo Man kam, nephew of Yip Man, has similar logo:



from http://www.lomankamwingchun.com/

i also like the Naam kyun logo by Klaas P. Evenboer (upper part of the image):



from http://www.hungkuen.nl/

[South Paw]

[TenTigers]

that is a seven star formation. Different from the big dipper seven stars.

[Asmo]

Can you explain a little more TenTigers? I'm quite possibly wrong but I always thought/understood when Chinese refer to the 7 stars they refer to the 7 stars of the big dipper. Although, on taoist banners etc. the formation of the stars usually do resemble the big dipper formation which is not the case on the lion dancing banners.

You know more about why the dots are patterned this way? Why 7? Etc...

[TenTigers]

As Lion Dance, Kai-Lun, and Dragon are actually Taoist mystical/spiritual rites, I believe the symbol of the Seven Stars in the Zig-Zag formation represents Tai-Yi, Supreme Diety and creator of the Universe, and his path across the heavens.
This symbol is often seen inscribed in gims-both metal and peachwood., which are often used for spiritual protection and exorcism.

[TenTigers]

there is actually a triangle seal for the triad, which had the han ji "Hung" written more like they do in a "chop" or Chinese seal. In that version, the "Hung" looks more like the top part of the diamond patch.

[Asmo]