Self learning

[Subitai]

Hi vaulander,

Did you read the PM I sent back in answer to your question?

[vaulander]

[TOET]

[vaulander]

Oh yes, clamping boxes with tigerclaws (clamping = pressing from the sides with fingertips,) grabbing jars of pickles by the lids, pushing open doors with Fu Jow, engaging push bars on doors with Bong Sau, lifting heavy boxes in the Horsestance, the possibilities are endless. Of course, since I ride a bike to work, I go into the breakroom bathroom to freshen up and change my shirt. It's just big enough for Wing Lam's Arrow hand, that just uses a salute and Horsestance for footwork. So, quick Arrow Hand, drop for twenty on the knuckles/fingers/tigerpushups, and then freshen up, have some coffee, clock in, and do the 2 sections of Kung Gee. Another full Kung Gee behind the building at lunch, some 3 star exercise on a pole, and back to work clamping, grabbing, and pushing doors. All you need is an eye for opportunity and a will to train, hehe.
Cheers!
V.

[vaulander]

So I did the Monkey King Staff set, Hung Jei Pan, for the first time in weeks yesterday. Just a quick run-through to keep it in memory, not a grind session like I've been doing Kung Gee lately. Well, I didn't have to stop at every move to check my stances and arm movements, as the stances where there already, but the techniques were shoddy. Truth be told I never really enjoyed the set, it was just a stepping stone for greater things. Helps loosen up my stiff wrists, but I can just spin the staff and play with it for that.

Truth be told, I haven't done the Dai Hung Yu Chair Chung Do, or Southern Butterfly Sword set in ages. Probably couldn't remember the sequence at this point anyway. I am sorta reluctant about it now, I don't want to get into it until I am better at KGFFK, so I don't undo some of the good changes I've seen and learned about it. I might practice some of the moves, like the spinning sequence or something just for exercise once in a while. It would take much correction and adjustment to make it look even close to proper, and I don't have the time to work seriously at it while still learning Kung Gee.

As for Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen, Tiger and Crane that I learned, I haven't touched that since about 1-2 weeks before Scott and I met up with the Hung Gar guy. I don't even want to do it just to keep the sequence in memory anymore. There's really no point to it. Adding shoddy, half learned techniques to shoddy, half learned techniques just gives you shoddy, half learned techniques that doesn't help for anything.

I guess I've been doing some thinking about things. A lot of key points came from you guys, supplemented by tidbits here and there from various sources, and thinking about my earlier 'career' in martial arts.

In Tae Kwon Do we drilled like 2-3 kicks continuously, sort of the meat and potatoes of that style. Even now I can snap em out instantly at correct range and timing without thinking about it. The window is open, bang.

"I don't fear the man who has practiced 10,000 techniques once, I fear the one who has practiced one technique 10,000 times." - Bruce Lee (supposedly.)

Asmo: "For the rest I agree with ironpalm to focus on as few movements as possible instead of a whole set. And certainly not multiple sets. GGFFK is enough for many years, trust me."

"That's not just a set, that's more like a whole system!" - Said by Miles Coleman, owner of the Chinese clinic here in town while watching me perform the Kung Gee in the parkinglot.

Boxers have like 6 moves/techniques. Footwork/dodging, the covering block, Jab, Cross, Hook and Uppercut. That's all they practice for years on end. Once you are in a boxer's window, (and they are really good at getting and keeping that distance,) they will eat you. - Loosely quoted from Marc MacYoung.

The Kung Gee alone has like 275-300 moves, depending on lineage. Considering every move has at least 2-3 applications, that makes for 600-900 'separate' techniques. (Very approximate math here, don't get too finicky.) In order to be as good at Kung gee moves as a boxer is at the 6 boxing moves, you would have to practice it 600 / 6 to 900 / 6 = 100 to 150 times MORE than the boxer. Short version, in order to be as good with EVERY technique as he is with his 6, one year of boxing is the equivalent of 100 - 150 years of Kung Gee. Now obviously there aren't 300 basic moves in Kung Gee, but far more than just six, used in different configurations.

I guess what I am trying to say, using a very long post with disconnected ramblings, is that I have come to realize that I probably wasted my money on FHSYK, Sup Ying Kuen, and the two Ha SaY Fu DVD's. If people can have schools based on Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen, maybe it's time for a school based on Kung Gee Fook Fu Kuen, if you can call three guys practicing together a 'school'.
Cheers!
V.

[PM]

[vaulander]

Well, I was typing as I thought, trying to get the stew of thoughts in my head clear at the same time. The butterfly palm is the butterfly palm whether you do it in the Kirin Bo or Dew Ma. The principle remains the same. The point I was trying to make is that Boxers stick to the same thing they did within the first few weeks of practice. After a few years they still do the same thing, only far better. I finally learned the complete (but really not good,) KGFFK the 15th of January 2009, and it is now August 29th 2009. Even with my inexperienced eyes, the difference between the first clip done 30th january and the last one at 25th of August is immense. If I keep training hard and progressing like that, next August I might be worth something. If however I say "okay, cool, time to work the Fu Hok," and go from, honestly, total crap to just crappy, like my Kung Gee is now, I have two crappy sets instead of one pretty okay (hopefully,) next year. If again I say "okay, cool, Sup Ying time," I have three crappy sets instead of one much better one. You can replace Monkey King Staff and/or butterfly swords instead, of course.
Of course I understand the law of diminishing returns, I don't expect to keep such a rate of improvement going forever, but it won't stop.
I know I am saying the same thing that you guys have been telling me for quite some time, but having people tell you things doesn't mean much unless you see it for yourself, he he. To tell the truth, for some time I felt that, 'okay, I'll do the Kung Gee until the folks on the board say it's good, and then I'll get busy with Tiger Crane, and when that's good, etc...' Now I am not so sure I need to do all the other sets. Oh sure, I might have a look at them from time to time, like a Tennis player having a game of bowling for fun with friends, but he is still a tennis player. If you understand what I mean by that.

Sorry I am unloading my mind and heart on you guys like this, but very few people understand my depth of feeling on these things. Even the boys sort of slack off during the week and then try to make up for it during our training days. I am already considered crazy at work for riding my bicycle all year round, and talking Hung Gar just leaves people with a blank look on their face. Getting a little exercise on my lunch break, sure thing, but bashing my arms on a metal pole doing the three star exercise is far too extreme for them to comprehend. There is one guy there that is probably three times as strong as me, but after seeing me doing that for five minutes straight he's been far more respectful and friendly. "Hey, this lunatic is hurting and bruising himself on purpose, if pain makes him smile like that maybe I shouldn't piss him off,' or something.
Anyway, I am sure I will ramble on some more later.
Cheers!
V.

[ironpalm]

[vaulander]

[Asmo]

[markt]

[vaulander]

[TenTigers]

[crazedjustice888]

[vaulander]

So the sequence is step from Dew Ma to Seipin with backfist, twist to Ji-ng Ma with Hook, shuffle/slidestep and uppercut? I will try that and see how it works.

As for forms, I do the Wing Lam Arrow Hand, Lau Gar Kuen, and KGFFK, on a regular basis. I know the sequence for FHSYK, but it's empty, with little to no understanding of the specifics. I can do the Monkey King Staff, but again, it needs a massive amount of corrections and drilling. I have done the Southern Butterfly Swords set 7 times total since 1st of July, when I finished learning the sequence. I don't even remember the sequence anymore, and I'm not really interested in working it until my stances and basics are solid. That set would only be for exercise anyway, since the odds of having them handy in a situation are slim to none.
I remember one line of a 12 line series from North Shaolin, and that's about it. I have done it like 2 times in the last year.
In truth, apart from doing a quick Arrow Hand when I get to work, and a Lau Gar with the boys from time to time, the only set I really work on is Kung Gee Fook Fu. Maybe I'll bring the staves the next time we go to see the sifu for some corrections or so, but I really want to learn how to use the Kung Gee. How to control the opponent using the claws and grabs like he controlled me when we crossed bridges. How he turned everything I did against me to blow everything down.
V.