Setup tactics: Fu Hok "Golden Star Punching Power"

[Asmo]

Takedown. Right leg goes behind and the right arm topples the opponent. Hope I explained well. English is not my main language There is a collection of takedowns in this section of the form.

BTW, dont think its just that application alone though. Techniques can of course be used in many ways. Its part of the martial artist to make things work in whatever way you can use them.

[ironpalm]

[PM]

sure it could be used like this... however, i still belive that ngau gok cheui is mainly a hook strike (othewise, why it would be always called cheui, "strike" right?).

we have other takedowns in our arsenal

[Asmo]

To keep the real application a seeeeeeeecret!

[PM]

well, maybe sometimes punch might be a punch... i think sometimes ppl tend to much to see something else behind a simple things. i am not saying it cannot be used like you have proposed, of course it can, but i doubt it was the original intention. i have checked for you, the Jyu Yujai's book on "tiger and crane" eg. speaks about simple hook strike (ngau gok cheui) and continuous uppercuts (lin waan tung tin cheui), Hung Kyun boxing A-B-C (well, western boxers are living example of that this A -B -C works, or?)

however, as my sifu says: if it works for you, it works. all the "secrets" in gungfu are good teacher, correct method, hard working student, realistic training and common sense i can show you a zillion of cool looking applications "i do this and you do this, then i do this and you that", but real life fighting and non-cooperating opponent is a different story. that is why i like my sifu's simple and direct approach to the Hung Kyun fighting and applications

[TenTigers]

The beauty of ngau gok kuen is when it is thrown, you have bridge sensitivity-the hooking of the wrist, when making contact with the opponent's block, "allows the hand to "know" whether to hook the blocking arm and slip in a yum charp choy, or run into a pow choy, or slide in. It can also hook behind the neck and pull the opponent into your strike, hook around his blocking arm if he holds it tight and straight, sort of like going around corners. It works very well as a limb destruction when thrown to your opponent's inner arm, or outer to the tricep.
A good carpenter can accomplish a great deal with just a hammer and chisel. Simple tools, whose potential is only limited by the hands that hold them.

[Frank Bolte]

to me this is a cobination which starts with left hand gwah choi..the gwah choi can change to simple grab..grab the opponents left arm then rush in oxhorn...or blocking gwah choi,although imo its hard to block an incoming jab with a gwah choi,anyway whatever comes in gwah choi it and then follow up with ngau gok choi...

If I start with a ngau gok choi as an attack I would throw my left first as a distraction..then step in and throw the oxhorn then follow up with a palm strike..high or low and then the right foh jin choi

to use this as take down is possible but we have better ones..since ur right leg is the rear one u would have to step forward and get with your leg behind the opponents leg to get that scissor effect..thats a way to large movement,nobody is just standing there...
just some more thoughts thrown in

[TenTigers]

in regards to the scissor sweep being telegraphed-here's a nice set-up



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDDCDNMQ ... 5701&kw=pa

2:16 the technique section starts. This application appears to be universal-Hung-Ga, Tai-Chi, and MMA!!!

[ironpalm]

[ironpalm]

[PM]

some cool info here guys, thnx. chin bin maan faat indeed!

[Asmo]

Good discussion folks, if anyone else has questions or idea's about a section in this or other form, start a new topic

I've used it succesfully as a takedown in sparring, so with unwilling opponents. Although I do have to be honest and say it was not used as in the set (long stepping). I used it when already close to the opponent and I simply slip the leg behind the opponent and perform the takedown.

TT: nice video The video also shows a point that makes this technique working as a takedown. You do have to 'unroot' him by lifting him just ever slightly upwards. BTW, it was you who somewhere in a discussion opened my eyes to the possibility of this technique being a takedown. Later on I saw Subitai using it this way in one of the episodes of Kwoon.

PM: chin bin maan faat?

[TenTigers]

Iron Palm-in the example he states that he is setting up his opponent first by throwing the punch and leg kick. The opponent is already expecting the previous attack, so when he throws the punch that "misses" his opponent is motor set mentally and physically-he has already created a reactive response in his opponent.
But, true-if he just came in and tried it, it would be exploited.
-doesn't matter. The idea was to show the scissor sweep technique itself. There are many ways to set it up. That was simply one of them.

[PM]

thousand changes, ten thousand variations

[Frank Bolte]

btw Im not saying its impossible using this as a takedown but imo the oxhorn punch comes from the right so the sweep has to come from the left to get that scissor effect..thats what I meant by its going to be a large movement.. the right foot has to come from behind and has to step behind the opponents right leg,therefor he has to stand in right foot forward position..
now as shown in the video the guy throws a cross,a cross can miss to the left so he could step through doing the takedown..so the scissor effect is opposite..

so u could use the footwork of the section but had to change the handwork,in this case exchange the oxhorn punch for a ping choi...