wrestling and hung gar

[Mig]

I was wondering why there is no wrestling or ground fighting techniques in HunKa and what are the reasons of not having. Is it cultural? The more I think the more I wonder as I can see shuaijiao or mongolian wrestling existed in chinese martial art arsenal as well as fightings on the ground during wars were inevitable just like fighting in the street those who were smarter will find a way to put down someone and neutralize the opponent.
Now, what I usually see in Hungka is how to avoid a wrestler before he gets you but haven't seen when you are on the ground.

Thanks for your input

Mig

[ngokfei]

There are throwing skills

the ground skills are more loose and are not apparent in the sets.

[Asmo]

I guess throwing and chin na (breaking) techniques are wrestling techniques?

OK I know about shuai jiao, but anyone knows any other kungfu styles that have a good portion of ground fighting?

Speaking of shuai jiao, anyone knows the background of shuai jiao? Is it a martial art or formed for competitions, etc?

Did some sparring with a MMA guy recently, in all his clinches/takedowns I could either grab his balls, poke his eyes, rip an ear, etc. OK I know MMA is a sport and these are not allowed there, but I approach Hung Kuen as a combative martial art where these are allowed.

[ngokfei]

that's easy, Southrn Dog Boxing.

While it is ground fighting it doesn't fully fall into what is popular today - BJJ/Ground Grappling & SUbmissions.

Slowly you have CMA styles devoting more time to this especially in the MMA/Sports aspect of the Martial Arts.

People tend to forget that BJJ is a pretty recent "specialty style". I can only assume that they also train heavily the striking and throwing arts found in Jiu Jitsu.

I do give a hats off to their hard work in researching all the available info on wrestling/grappling and also added some unique aspects of their own.

in the end its all good

[ngokfei]

oh here's some clips
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnkmgQRM69U[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9nQ9hwUB18&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPhczHmjZ7k&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_yBUN63skc&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FynZ-mK4oxs&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWJf1EJh3P4&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAK7fSWnPgs&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knWSVXmR48&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQir1h6kmas&feature=related[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Q30_9ZbYI&feature=related[/youtube]

[HungFamilyFist]

i didn't watch all those videos to be honest. But my outlook is along these lines:

Hung ga has plenty of "Ground work", just not along the line that we view it today being influenced by Jui Jitsu and MMA. Our game is not get to the ground and break bones. Our game is break those bones while standing. But we have tons of attacks for opponents on the ground. Just look at your basic stance work. Dragon stance(that's what I call it at least, aka twist horse), Gwai Ma(spelling?). are all attacks to opponents on the ground. The Wu dip Jeung(butterfly palm set) has a section of offensive ground technique.

We will avoid wrestling on the ground for extended periods, that is not our game. But it's not completely ignored in the system. Im sure others will have deeper insight than I.

[Mig]

So assuming that you fall and and following the opponent takes you down, so what do you do as a hungka practioner?
What I hear is under the assumption that the opponent will only attack you throwing you punches and eventually kick you and of course that is the case for not serious fights. Now, if you have been in a street fight then you will realize that your opponent is not going to let you just punch and find any opportunity to play dirty and throw you especially if the opponent is heavier than you. It is just common sense. As far as I know shuaijiao (check on wikipedia) is an old art that was popular in the armies around the kingdoms in mainland. So later chinese boxing practioners had an idea of different styles and ground techniques. My question again, what do you do if you fall when you loose balance in a fight and you are not able to get up? Any insights will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Mig

[HungFamilyFist]

perhaps i misinterpreted the OP. from the stuff in Wu Dip Jeung, use your legs to keep distance. Hook the feet, kick, scissor kick, anything to keep them away from your vital areas, until you have a moment to get to your feet.

So it's a simpler ground game, we won't do the mount/locks like a lot do on the ground.

[Tid Sin]

Hung Kuen is what it is. Just take up wrestling on the side. No one art is perfect

[Mig]

Okay, I am going to rephrase it. What would you do if you fall and someone has or knows judo/mma/jujitsu/wrestling locks? We are not talking about a perfect art and I am not trying to find a weak point in the system, just how did they handle this kind of situation in the past or how would you handle this. At least you need to be prepared and have a back up plan before it happens to you.

Thanks,

Mig

[crazedjustice888]

I can voice my past experiences. When I was in those situations, I was only stuck in holds that required both hands to be put to use. Since I have been taught a little ground work I knew where to put my hands to give me a little lee way like in a choke to put my forearm between my throat and his arm and the reflexes to go with it.

What I did however was I used my tiger claw and gripped at his stomach and heaved in. This coupled with fingers digging in stomach hurt him to the point of letting go. The next one he called a cradle...whatever that means. I was able to get a hand free and I grabbed his tricep and pulled. This made him naturally let go.

I don't know if these would work on other people, but what I always seem to use is my claw to dig my fingers into soft parts of the body or vulnerable parts. Thats just my 2 cents. Oh, and that story comes from a friendly sparring match...