So what defines "Hung Kuen" these days?

[mok]

[banditshaw]

[PM]

note: origin of tit sin kyun is a question. we know that the lineage is:

Gwok Yan - Leung Kwan alias Tit Kiu Saam - Lam Fuksing - Wong Feihung - others

but - what was before Gwok Yan? in the old tetxts he is described as Siulam monk and great Master of Hung Kyun (?). some texts speak that tsk originates form Ng Mui, some say that from Hung Heigun

just a side note, if anybody is interesting in that, we can make a new thread

[HungFamilyFist]

well time for me to chime in. I fully admit that i don't have the historical, social, and language expertise that most of you have. however i do keep seeing a pattern in your arguments when it come to locations dates, etc

Bear with me, long post but i think it makes sense.

There is a lot of points said about hung hei gun, and how many people see the WFH lineage as hung gar, etc. it has been touched before about the evolution of martial art/arts as individual arts/subsets and as a whole. Evolution, change, and so on, those are the keys to what hung gar might be defined as.

of the southern styles, what would you all say is the most common? Hung gar, Wing chun, maybe CLF? Then there are the smaller(in size) systems like SPM, bak mei, and so forth.

well the smaller systems are much easier to define through lineage and through physical attributes. Every SPM maser knows his lineage simply because there are so few lines and it is more secretive. Also, they have a very strict system f movements that those systems adhere to.

So back to the bigger(in size) systems. Wing chun is practice through out the world. Vast in size. But wing chun can be defined. Controlling the center line, trapping, using the opponents bridge, these are all topics a wing chun person will be able to identify.

Choy lay fut honestly, i don't know a lot about. I'm told it is very direct, and not too far from Hung gar, but you guys will need to educate me on if their lineage is fairly well defined or not, and so forth.

then we get to hung gar.

Hung gar comes from regions all over(as already stated). WFH lineages, those who trained on the boats, and so called "Village" styles(chris is that what you mean by "Mainland styles"?). Dozens of sub-systems. And more so, the lineages crisscross and stop and start again and cross again. Then it comes to the states where people start using it, adapting, evolving also.

While some may say that some lines are better than others, every sub-set must have it's merits. That why you get Sifus who carry one torch, because that is a direct line passed to them, you can have others who are not tied to one line, and can mix the different hung systems. What I am being taught is primarily Lam Sai Wing. however, there is traces of Village hung gar in their as well, as well as some Tang fun also. Why my Sifu chose to switch and move things around are partially shared partially not. But i know this, they are there because they are effective (Rik might actually be able to shed some light on this specific topic).

So as i see it, perhaps what defines hung gar is not specifically one type of technique or thought. The system is so broad that it's all there. A hung gar player can play soft, they can play hard. They can play short or long. they can play the WC game of building bridges and they can break them down. Hung gar is internal and external and external*.

Hung gar to me, gets its power from its diversity.

i hope this argument is well put and makes sense. As mentioned, i don't know nearly as much of the history that you guys know. But i know what I see in my school, and on the web.

[Fu-Pau]