Hung Kyun and baak hok/Hap ga/lama paai connections

[PM]

hello,

this topic has been already discussed couple of times, but never mind that.

"tiger and crane" contains some long range techniques, which are said to come from fat mun ga 佛門家/fat ga lohon 佛家羅漢拳. in the "tiger and crane" book, it is mentioned in regards with following techniques:







the techniques are very similar to baak hok 白鶴/Hap ga俠家/lama paai 喇嘛派 techniques

anyway, there is more that is very similar to lama paai, like:







second, we have sap ying kyun 十形拳, also called ng ying ng hang kyun 五形五行拳. ng hang kyun 五行拳 section consists of fist striking techniques only, some of them also similar to lama paai.

so, i would like to ask you all: do you know any reliable source speaking of connection between baak hok/Hap ga/lama paai and Hung Kyun?

what really means fat mun ga 佛門家/fat ga lohon 佛家羅漢拳? is it name of a system, or a name set 拳套?

we know that Wong Yanlam 王隱林 and Wong Keiying 黃麒英 were one of the 10 Tigers of Gwongdung 廣東十虎, so maybe this could be the connection? everybody just says: sure, "ten tigers of Gwongdung", that is it, so far, i did not find any reliable info on that.

or was it Lam Saiwing 林世榮 who has added those long range techniques (he had cca 6-7 teachers before he has studied with Wong Feihung)?

or is it much older thing, like Southern Siulam lohon kyun?

i hope to find out more about that, looking forward what you can say to the subject

[Cola di Montecorso]

One of the most important developments in the spread of Hung Gar, which is mostly overseen by other authors, is the fact that Lam Sai Wing was a member of the Southern Kuoshu Institute in Guangzhou (Canton) and also was associated, maybe loosely, with the Jingwu Tiji Hui (Jingwu Martial Arts Guild).

The Southern Kuoshu Institute of Guang Dong was established in Guangzhou in the early thirties. It was founded by the government to revitalise and reorganise Kung Fu. The first director was Chang Chih Chiang. This Institute had several divisions: Mok Gar Kuen, Choy Lee Fut, Leung Pai, Pack Mee Pai and Hung Gar. The last division was run by Lam Sai Wing.

- Chinese Wushu History, Lin Bo-Yuan, Wuzhou Publications, Taipei, Taiwan (Chinese).
- Shaolin Long Fist Kung Fu, Yang Jwing-Ming and Jefferey A. Bolt, Hollywood / California 1981, page 8.

Also Hop Gar / Lama Pai was part of the Kuoshu Institute.

And yes - with all respect - I am aware that the present Lam Family members will deny all ties of Lam Sai Wing to the aforementioned institute. But this history is part of the Chinese Martial Arts Archives in Taipei, Taiwan. Brought there by those masters that fled the communism in China.

[PM]

hello,

thank you for the info, interesting. these are the only sources i have seen to speak about Lam Saiwing being member of Jing Mou Wui/Gwok Seut Wui.

all the old and new biographies mention that Lam Saiwing had established - together with other masters - a martial arts association called "Southern Martial Athletic Association" (Naam mou taiyuk wui 南武體育會)

also:

- Lam Saiwing's book on fu hok seung ying was released in 1923; the pictures were shot even earlier
- in 1930's he was already in Hong Kong, not in Gwongjau (Canton)

so or so, if it was Lam Saiwing who brought in these techniques, it was earlier, and not due to the contact with other masters in Gwokseut/Jing Mou Associations. nothing wrong with those associations, both were prestigius and famous associations of its time, he could be a member thought. i just doubt it beacuse none of the old Chinese biographies (written in his time, by his students, in Southern China) says anything about him being a member.

looking forward to read more, thank you

[Cola di Montecorso]

[PM]

[Cola di Montecorso]

[PM]

[Asmo]

[Cola di Montecorso]

[Cola di Montecorso]

[Asmo]

[PM]

[Cola di Montecorso]

[Asmo]

Their site isn't the most easy to use, but I tried and haven't found anything I'm afraid.

[Asmo]

Uhm, does this help? Its a bit confusing and not sure how & what that lineage page should work, but wanted to post anyway just in case...

http://www.lionsroar.name/hung_gar_lineage.htm