Hung Kyun TOP 5

[PM]

hello to all fellow Hung Ga Kyun practitioners,

i have question for you, kind of poll - what do oyu consider to be top 5 Hung Kyun:

1) sets
2) weapons
3) hand techniques/combos
4) kicks
5) strength and conditioning drills

no need to give all 5 in all cases, but at least 1, and no more than 5!

looking forward to hear from you!

[Kain]

I do not know what are the top ones, but my favourites are:

1) Fu hok, or mui fa kyun, if I want to do something fast.
2) Butterfly swords
3) Here I will cheat a little I will post seven at once. Seven stars.
4) Chaan gek (not sure, how it is written...)
5) Dead weights,TGU, snatch, swing, military press. Too bad, I can post only five here...

[Daifong]

Good questions, Kain:

1) Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kyun/ "工" Character Tiger Subduing Form

2) Baat Gwa Gwaan/ Eight Trigram Pole

3) Chyun Kiu/ Drilling Bridge

4) Kau Taan Geuk/ Sweep-Reap Leg

5) Saam Jin Sau/ Three Extensions


Merry Christmas

[PM]

guys, you can give 1-5 options in all 1-5 departments, ie. up to 5 sets, up to 5 weapons etc.

[Subitai]

Dang Daifong, it pains me to say I like the same ones....haha.

1)
- Gung Gee, but in hindsight...I think once a person learns to play the sets with different focus of energies. Then they kinda all are good...depending on what your focus is. Still my personal fav has always been Gung Gee 1st.

2)
- 2 Handed Gim...or call it European Style Long Sword, but with western and eastern Fencing principles combined
- Long Pole, Not just "8 diagram pole" but because once you understand Fencing...then it's really fencing with just 2 hands
- Daan Do, IMO, the most practical because you can use a stick (easy to find in a modern setting) if you had to and apply much of the principles effectively.

3)
- Yau...Wan Kiu / Soft and Redirect combination bridging
- Po Pai Sao
- Punching through the sleeves

4) I also like very much
- Kau Taan Geuk/ Sweep-Reap Leg = Unless i'm wrong, I do believe non Native speakers like me, learned this as Hook bounce and sweep method...but non-the-less, this is IMO one of Hungs Best kept secrets.
- Shovel and Chicken Kicking.

5)
- Kiu Sao Hei Gong / Bridge Hand Breath Skills
- Heavy, oversized weapon training
- Lion Dance footwork

[Frank Bolte]

1.-Gung ji yes!

2.Long pole 8 diagram,butterfly swords and tiger fork

3.chat sing / 5 elements

4.heel kick

5.3 extensions, my super heavy long pole, my log for saam sing etc.

[Daifong]

Well, first Kain asked "top five", then he said, "my favorites", so...

I like Gung Ji because I like Hung Ga foundation. Furthermore, I feel that if you have this set, you can create the others, but with the others, you cannot create this set. With techniques which take time to develop a superior skill, and those which are ready-to-use, it also contains just enough of "introduced skills", to give you some idea where the system is going with future development.

Subitai, I like your east-west view on fencing, as I do on bare-hand skills. I agree that in modern times it's more practical to develop skill with a shorter weapon. However, short of projectiles, imho there were few if any weapons that could best the long pole in its day. And yes, following Lam Saiwing's example of adding the 6.5 techniques to our set, anyone depending on a weapon would do well to know every possibility available to that weapon, whether he will use it for himself, or not.

I feel that Chyun Kiu/ Drilling Bridge is the top skill, because without it, there would remain little in the way of directly offensive or defensive structure, only arcing motions and following. Drilling Bridge is applied through a balance of hard and soft. Longhand skills are great, but even Chut Sing Lin Waan Kyun uses the Drilling Bridge, Maan Sau (问手).

Kau Taan Geuk, Kau means "Hook", but whether hooking around to the opposite side of the opponent's leg, prior to "bouncing" it out for under him, like Judo's Osoto Geri, or hooking the front directly, like an extra-abusive Kosoto, the term is the same. However, Taan, meaning "Bounce", has the same sound as the term for sliding or driving (or even "bouncing") the "arrow" leg back, while in a front "bow" stance (as in Taan Mah/ "Step Back"). So far as I can tell, this is uniquely a Cantonese term, for which there is no specific written character, therefore, easy to get the terms mixed up with one another.

This is why, rather than subject non-native speakers to all of that, I take some "artistic license" with translation, following Judo's example, inside motion "Sweep", outside motion "Reap", thus Hung Kyun has the "Sweep-Reap Leg Technique", exercising control over the opponent while keeping both feet close to the ground, simple/ easy la, making it imho one of Hung Kyun's most reliable skills. Imho, the term "Hook and Bounce" is serviceable as well, especially if you emphasize the "Reap".

Kiu Sau Hei Gung/ Saam Jin Sau , more or less the same thing. It gives Hung Kyun it's basis for internal training. Lots of ways to build strength, but to do so with Hei Gung is rather rare, especially looking outside of orthodox Karate and Gung Fu systems. Imho of Hei Gung techniques, Hung Kyun's is unique, therefore I emphasize it, first and foremost.

I certainly like "heavy weapon", "three star" log, and various types of sandbag training as well, and if somebody can go out and Lion Dance all day showing excellent stances and stamina, his Gung Fu is on a whole 'nother level already!

[Kain]

Fist of all, I did not ask anything... I just answered PMs poll...

[PM]

Daifong, thnx for the additional info, as always, very interesting!

[Daifong]

[Kain]

[PM]

well, thnx guys. i am actually waiting for other guys' input, and then i will add my 2 cents. my answers will be VERY different i guess

[TenTigers]

jeez, I typed this whole thing and accidentally deleted it(sigh)
Funny that everyone is speaking about Ngau dan gerk (Kau tan gerk) I was just thinking about that this morning for an article..must've tapped into the universal source...
The forms in Hung-Ga are set up in the same way a Martial Artist develops-Foundation, refinement, mental training, and growth.
1)Forms-Gung Ji Fook Fu Kuen-this is THE foundational set for Hung-Ga. Stance, breath, power generation, technique-all in one set. This can be a stand alone set, for some. In many cases it was. I play this Harder,larger, longer, slower than other sets.
Moi Fa-Some say this was added as a bridge between GJFFK and FHSYK. Quite possible, as it focuses on practical fighting techniques,trapping, counter trapping, etc. I use this to draw out many of our fighting techniques.
Hard leads to soft, and the forms do this as well.
FHSYK is a further refinement, focusing on the blend of hard and soft, and pays particular attention to the short bridging skills.
Ng Ying Kuen teaches the mindsets of each animal along with corresponding technique, which is combined to develop the overall fighter.
Tiet Sien Kuen-this is a set I continually ponder on. Each year my understanding of it changes. (Not deeper, just different!;-) But, that is also the development of the practitioner. At a certain time in his life, his further development is based on how he ponders, thinks, makes connections and grows, thus making his Gung-Fu his own.
I feel it may have been added for just this reason.
Weapons-
Dan-dao-for the same reasons that Subitai mentioned-anything you hold can be applied with these techniques.
I teach many drills from FMA before teaching the set. Attacks, defenses,disarms, counters, two man drills, etc this gives a student blade awareness and understanding of the weapon, before learning the set.
Bot Gwa Gwun-power generation,fighting technique, and understanding of extending your intent through the weapon.
Kuan-dao-only because it is heavy and imbalanced (like myself) it enables the fighter to use anything he finds-like a no-parking sign...

Hand techniques-Crashing Bridges and Element punches. These are like "instant Kung-Fu-just add water." With just these, a student can kick serious arse. They are incredibly powerful, and when combined with Bik Kiu-crashing, they are almost unstoppable.
Kiu-Sao Faht-hard and soft, short and long. I am especially working on developing my short bridging skills.

Leg techniques-Ngau Dan Gerk-hooking, blocking, sweeping, kicking. This technique has so much to offer, especially if you add into your training, chi-gerk skills-which IMHO everyone should.
Circling step, running horse,for breaking structure, sweeping, maneuvering, etc.

Conditioning-Saam SIng Dar-I teach several different methods:
1)Hard-tight fists, tight arms-two years
2)Soft-Open Hands, loose strikes,deeper conditioning-two years
3)Hard and Soft combined-Loose, tighten upon impact-faht ging
4)As a Reaction drill-low, then quick high, quick low
5)Bridge structure, rooting-forward energy, try to uproot your opponent

Claw, fist and palm training-otherwise your Gung-Fu is empty.
Iron body-striking. If you are afraid to get hit, then you will hesitate and not commit. Hence, you can't really fight.
Weight training-bags, jars, poles, locks, rocks, beer steins

[Subitai]

[TenTigers]

**** Ten****, Kismit / KIZMIT ???

STRANGE>>> I also had been thinking about the exact same thing????!!!!! I had reasoned...I 'm gettin' older, mabe it's time. But you take it man...go ahead and write the article. Just make sure "WE ALL LOOK GOOD".

maybe a collaboration is in order then....