lau family hung kuen

[Subitai]

[Daifong]

[A Joyful Process]

Interesting stuff in here.
So, was chatting to Si Fu (please DON'T take my words as any strong representative of his understanding/application), wouldn't use the 1000 hand against a punch really, movement is big & low, we have plenty of other stuff for punches. If you did shorten the mechanics of the 1000 hand against a punch into a short power type thing, sort of getting on the trajectory for a moment to deflect a higher strike it makes sense to me to go straight in with the same hand to attack imo - on the inside mirroring your opponent's side this makes sense as if deflected properly they would prob have to go in for the 2 of the 1-2 with the other hand so your backhand can cover; on their outside you should be good to go, deflect & in for the strike with the same hand used - quicker for you than also doing a 1-2; even though you can chuck both in together. Footwork & positioning of course important. Hope this is making sense... theorising is just theorising. We'd use the 1000 hand for a low strike or kick instead, then can launch in from low upwards if need be. Form trains body mechanics & speed, this follow up part not really for trading shots, just attack if the going's good. We have & train it both sides, so can adapt for the positioning, front hand can cover defensively & offensively, as can the back hand transition. Workable & adaptable inside & out depending on reading of situation. Found a pic from filming day for a basic static structural reference:



Does pic raise any issues? I think front hand can adapt to cover upwards quickly, but is more offensive. We often applicate & strike a couple moves with same hand. My words don't do his demo or explanations to me much justice, things are much harder in textual forums than in person. So much stuff in the forms adaptable, the reaction conditioning aspect important here, down & then in shortest reaction possible, front lead aids this I think. 1000 hand into palm previous just basic conditioning for strike. My speed in video no justice for app if you were to attempt anything in exact form order (we're not really, just intent principles). My understanding prone to change; I feel how I can work this way though.

[Subitai]

Daifong, I hear what your saying. Just so that you know...my quote is really about, taking traditional HK and making sure it applies well with more modern approaches. I think you get that...but others may not.

Gone are the days when people come at you (if ever?) with a classic reverse punch to the chest. Also, i'm not so keen on the sparring hand sets... Mabe for beginners but then maturity must take place.

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A Joyful Process...Nice photo, mabe it's the lighting, almost movie quality, pretty cool.

I was just thinking since you photograph well, you'd be good on TV or movies. Wish I had a bunch more guys like you when we filmed KWOON. Better than just paying TKD guys.


More personal input for thought.

Chin Gee does work well for punches or anything. The concept of covering or closing gates is pretty well known. It's better to think of it that way. People are all different sizes so no problem.

Humor my next example ok, because although I like your picture I can't help but for thinking of this concept:

"ie. Just about every style has a fake or commit fully low attack (such as a kick) in order to open the upper gate" (& vice versa)

So as an example it's pretty common for a guy to kick low and come back up high with a cross or overhand. A common tactic in modern style.

If i'm standing Orthodox (ie Left forward-Rt back) and I skip in left front kick....You will block it, but as you're coming in...watch out for the RT cross.
I hate to beat a dead horse but man you're really going to have a hard time doing it your way. You really leave your face open. Structurally, your rear hand won't really protect you very well. (My friendly Opinion ok ) You timing just has to be TOO perfect...but the common way works everytime.

I noticed your school looks like one that does San Da or San Shou of some sort. Just as an experiment...for fun. Have a couple of your brothers kick low at you....in order for you to Chin Gee, and make sure they follow up immediately with different types of punches. Example: Jabs & Crosses or overhands.

Try it 10 times your way and then then 10 X's blocking with the lead hand. True it does change the timing..but I think you'll understand what i'm saying.

I'm just saying, if you can pull this off consistently...that is damn good.

[A Joyful Process]

Cheers Subitai, well, yep, some trial & error sparring should get part way to figuring this practically - will give your example a go when I get opportunity tomorrow.

Got a link to that Kwoon film?

[Subitai]

[A Joyful Process]

I've been meaning to reply to this for ages, but I really wanted to enjoy these episodes & my web access ain't what it once was since my computer bust (silver lining - more training time), but finally watched last episode... loved these, shame there weren't more, mummy dearest the standout imo - loved some of the stuff you were doing in the choreo. Dug the "that corner, that corner, he's doing tiger crane" bit. Thanks Subitai! Respect!

[santaranks]

Ref: Chin.Gee Sau

In the Hung Kuen Fu Hok two man form that my teacher Jim Uglow taught me, the raised right hand of the Chin Gee technique is definitely used to block a punch, while the left hand strikes forward-as this form was supposedly put together by Wong Fei Hung and Lam Sai Wing-it's my belief that this is their comment on the most important use of this technique.

That said ny teacher has shown me other uses, using Pek Chui to block a punch then using Chin Gee to strike with both hands-throat and chest. Also using Pek Chui to scoop underneath a kicking leg and then throw it up and towards the kicker with Chin Gee (and hopefully sending him back on his arse)...I find there are usually several different applications for every technique in Hung Gar...

[A Joyful Process]

re: that move... at 2 mins 12 seconds - similar deal...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOBMNafE ... age#t=132s

[Daifong]

Hung Kyun can be somewhat like American Football, in the sense that, at first contact, if you have aligned yourself correctly on the "hit", there will be little or no fight to clean up afterward.

Most people either swing wildly, or use straight-line/ sunken elbow alignment. The thing about Seung Gung Sau, is that it uses horizontal/ circular alignment, thus can cover as it slips between the gates with terminal force.

Nice one, AJP!

[Daifong]

"Soft-Bridge Realists" can also ponder how the late master Yang Cheng Fu might have fared against any modern Boxer of similar size. It would seem the movement in question has much in common with one of the original Taai Gik Kyun Sap Saam Sik (Tai Chi Thirteen Forms) as well.