lau family hung kuen

[Frank Bolte]

greatly produced video :_
Leo Au yeaung Sifu in London



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_BXxhU4tTA[/youtube]

[A Joyful Process]

Hey, cheers Frank! I'm trying to upload a more hd quality version of this as we speak... That's me (Nick) in the blue bit.

[Subitai]

Hey NICK...

Nice video...congrats to your Sifu and all the hard work on the video.

Love the music & special effects....Old School COOL!! hahah


I just have one question (curiousity mostly):

In your Blue section (part 3) at about 3:34

Most people doing othodox WFH style HK would follow the classic method of 1000 character hand down chopping with the standard block and chop.
* IE...after RT hand covers the gate down...it then blocks up and the LFT hand is now offensively chopping/thrusting forward.

- Yours looks different in that the right hand after chopping down immediately attacks and the LEFT Hand in Rear is blocking?

I'm just curious is that standard methodology taught in your lineage?

Respect..."O"

[A Joyful Process]

Hi Subitai, cheers! Good point - that was the first thing I questioned soon after being taught our method, due to the fact everyone else plays it the way you describe. The way I do it in the video is our standard methodology, the way we play it in every instance, in gung gee, fu hok, etc. (I have practiced the other way now & again)
Way I understand it is the front hand as an aggresive lead-in to opponent's space, the back as cover, before whatever else... for want of a more detailed descript.

[Subitai]

Cool Beans man!! Thanks for the quick reply!!

I'll give your input some thought and mabe some trial and error. I must say i'm personally alittle leary of this method.

For discussions sake, my first thoughts as a teacher is a weak spot in structure and in the openings you can leave.

As I said before...when 1000 Character hand clears the gate down...the Upper gate in now open. Your opponant may fire a shot down the center for example OR a western style OverHand Rt for example.

In the orthodox method, it seems safer because the right hand rising clears your upper gate.


I'm just discussing ok, so please don't take offense. I'm just being very curious.

* Assuming your RT hand (forward) and chopping down.

1) if you do it VS your opponents left Punch... and you really didn't have enough power to disrupt him. He may also follow up with the classic 1 - 2 (ie punch immediately with his right) ...in which case Your rear hand will have ALLOT of trouble defending in that structure.

I mean, your quick coming in...but you may also take a shot just a give one....YOU follow me?

2) if you do it VS your opponents Right Punch... it means you'll be coming down and on the inside of his right arm. As you then rise to chop forward...your rear left hand is mostly for Structure and not really to block.
- Also, if your opponent then does an overhand Left punch...Once again you'll be trading shots with him...Only his will be stronger.


There are other uses for Chin Gee Sao... it can also scoup from underneath...but that kinda makes it difficult to counter up immediately with the same blocking arm as you do.

.......................

One things for sure...your way is definately agressive. I will give it some more thought.

Thanks, "O"

[A Joyful Process]

I couldn't take offence, I'll critically question & try everything, plus I'm just a beginner & will be for some time to come!

1000 hand I would use for low strike or against a kick, if the angle's good. Clearing the upper after the lower, the back hand can still cover this in the same manner if the timing's good I feel, front hand can get in quick, or adapt into a block if need be. I guess everything can transition into something else or will adapt re the situation. As I guess everyone is, we're encouraged strongly to drill everything repeatedly in numerous ways individually outside of anything it might continue into in form, & I guess we have lots of front hand covers with backhand strikes in later sections of gung gee. If anything I think the upwards thrust of the front hand lead encourages the body to develop fast upward reaction from the lower gate position with an intent of attack, or cover, with very deliberate forward focus... targeted intent thrusting straight in. I guess form this way develops body reaction lead in speed aggressively towards target. Fighting is different & more maleable perhaps. I guess it's as the opportunity presents itself. If you can get in with the lead hand & train for it, you've a good takedown/out advantage. Other way seems more cautious; I don't mean that as a negative. It's all just alphabet though I guess.

So much food for thought in every movement; I don't know if my showcase is the best example, but it's a start at least. (writing this really quickly without great time to really think).

[Subitai]

Yeah no worries..."Different strokes for different folks" (as the saying goes)

Ok ok, I just hope you have some excellent timing!!

[PM]

excellent video, i have sent the link to all of my students! old school, Hung Kyun Kill Bill!

[A Joyful Process]

[Frank Bolte]

[A Joyful Process]

[Daifong]

Great film short, it looked like a lot of fun to make, my compliments to your Sifu!



Now, as for this "mystery" technique:

Historically, Ching soldiers were primarily trained in the Bak Pai Cheung Kiu/ "Northern Long-Bridge System". The Chin Ji Sau Fat/ "Thousand-Character Technique" was one of the tactical methods specifically designed to counter this.

The idea being, that when the Ching Enemy would attack with any straight development to the middle/ lower gate, the Hung Gar Freedom Fighter then slashed it down with the diagonal lead hand Pek Sau/ "Chop", Yat Peet/ "First stroke of the Character Chin" (千).

Now, whether the Ching Enemy threw again or not, the Seung Gung Sau Fat/ "Double Bow Hand Technique" was coming from our Freedom Fighter directly, Yat Waak/ "Second Stroke of the Character Chin" (千).

This is because, our Hung Fighter knew that the Ching Soldiers had been busy training too, to roll off of Hung deflections with the Gwa Da Lin Wan Kyun/ "Hang Punch/ Strike Continuous Attack".

Therefore, as the Ching Enemy attempted to roll over our Hung Fighter's defense with his Gwa Chui/ "Hanging Punch", our Freedom Fighter simply followed it upward, trapping it above, as the palm was delivered horizontally to the Hei Mun/ "Air Gate" beneath, Kwong Lau Kyut Ba/ "Torrential Flood-Waters Weaken the Dam".

Now, regardless of which hand which gate, the Ching Enemy was then finished directly by our Hung Gar Freedom Fighter's Seung Gwa Chui Fat/ "Double Hang Punch Technique", delivered vertically, Yat Kei, as the "Third (and final) Stroke of the Character Chin" (千).

The "Rear Hand Lift, Lead Hand Strike" option shown can be readily seen in both Mok Kweilaan and Tang Fong school presentations. Certainly, Lam Saiwing schools do use this variation, albeit typically maintained in other sets and drills.

That being said, the "Rear Hand Lift, Lead Hand Strike" option is more selective, requiring that one applies this from the outside gate. This is primarily because of the opponent's other hand (as Subitai points out).

Conversely, the "Lead-Hand Lift, Rear Hand Strike" application works equally well from both the inside and the outside gate.

Both are examples of Fan Lau Sau/ "Leaking Hands", a technique as applicable today as it was 100 - plus years ago.



Best,

Michael

[PM]

Michael sihing, you are a living encyclopedy! saving your post again, excellent, thnx!

[JPC]

I was taught the three Chin Zi Sau strokes differently. The first stroke was the top stroke, the second the Pek sau and third the mid stroke. As here (top line, second from left):

[Rising Crane]

That's a really good video. The opening reminds me of a James Bond movie- very cool!

About the chin ji techniques: In the Deng family hung gar (Not Deng Fong- the Cantonese one!) the second stroke is with the lead hand as in this video, but with the rear hand pressing under the elbow. The idea is that having chopped down the opponents bridge from the outside, the same hand comes up directly to the throat with the rear hand controlling the elbow. The first and third strokes are the same.

I really like the posts by 'Subitai' and 'Daifong' and I will play with that technique in sparring. I think Daifongs idea is very logical if the opponent rolls the hand over into a gwa choi, but if the opponent has come in with a grab to try a throw for example, his elbow being down and palm up, then chopping down and hitting up with the same hand seems efficient.

Thanks for the good video and the food for thought!

David.