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NaamKyun.com Discussion Forum • View topic - elbow tendonitis

elbow tendonitis

"Old" Hung Kyun and "New" (Wong Feihung) Hung Kyun

elbow tendonitis

Postby Mig » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:07 pm

Mig
 
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Postby Daifong » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:18 am

Mig,

Other than breaking up the inflamation/ irritation cycle (as you are already involved with doing), without knowing precisely how you aggravated that in the first place, suggestion for more specific use adjustment/ therapy will be inconclusive. Also, without a Dit Da practitioner's attention, a "sour spot" can linger for a year or more, if it does not actually develop into something chronic.

Some common martial artist's reasons for elbow trouble are:

-Punching with the elbows locked

-Training a lot of fast, snapping hand motion, without slow, smooth motion to balance it

-Not warming up the joints properly for speed training, especially in between power training sessions

-Allowing the elbows to be struck, twisted, or otherwise taken beyond range of motion during training

-Injuries not necessarily related to martial arts, such as taking a bad fall

-Overtraining

If you do not already know how that initially occurred, I recommend you review this list, see if there is anything else you can think of, and try to factor out that tendency from your movement.

In fact, you might want to just give fast snapping motion a break for a good long while. Focus your training on other areas, and practice anything requiring elbow usage in slow-motion, carefully building up your speed with proper form in months to come.

Also, a good bottle of Zheng Gu Shui (正骨水) can often help in settling down the inflammation cycle. The bottle comes in a little red-and-white cardboard box, and you can purchase it from (almost) any Chinese herbalist. If you want something that you can apply yourself, Zheng Gu Shui works more efficiently than (most) over-the-counter Dit Da Jau.

:D

Best,

Michael
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Postby vtml » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:17 am

I love Google Image search
Image
<a href="http://www.hongdelion.com.au" target="_blank">Hong De Lion Dance Association</a>
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Postby Xiaobian » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:11 am

The difference with zheng gu shui is that it has menthol in it, so it gives a cooling sensation. Other than that, I haven't found it so effective, although that may have been the fault of my application or expectations.
其疾如風,其徐如林,侵略如火,不動如山,難知如陰,動如雷霆
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Postby Mig » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:05 am

Thanks everybody for your input. Now how do you determine a good bone setter or tieda practitioner?
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Location: Hermosa Beach, CA USA

Postby Daifong » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:26 am

Daifong
 
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Postby Daifong » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:48 am

Mig,

You do have Acupuncturists in Hermosa Beach, but I can't really recommend them categorically, as all they need to do to get credentialed in the USA is two years of studying herbs and acupoint combinations on top of an ordinary 4-year science degree.

In Asia, and until only recently, legitimate acupuncture certification always further included personal Qigong training and a lengthy internship under somebody experienced, ok...

Now, Sifu Robert Chu is in the LA area, I don't know how convenient Arcadia is to you, but he does have an excellent reputation. Why don't you call his number, tell him that you heard of him through the Hungkyun Forum. Please give him our best regards, and let us know how that works out for you!

:D

Best,

Michael
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Postby ironpalm » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:55 pm

User avatar
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Postby Daifong » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:35 am

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Postby JE » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:03 pm

Sorry I don't have time to write more of a reply at the moment but I will try tomorrow. Just to quickly correct Michael's comment about training here in the US. To be an L.Ac in California you need to complete a second four years of training at a state recognized school (not all of them are) and then you will qualify to take the state board exam. If you pass that then you can call yourself an Licensed Acupuncturist. So basically it's undergrad, 4 years of post-grad, and a board exam and not the simple 2 years Michael had mentioned.

Yeah, I'm biased - it's what I do for a living so I have a vested interest in everyone knowing it's a lot of work to get there. LOL

That said, not everyone has a solid background in treating trauma but most L.Ac's should be able to help. Robert practices a non-TCM version of acupuncture that is quite effective for treating pain. Between that specialty and his strong background in CMA you'd definitely be in good hands.

If you'd like to give a bit more detail about the elbow - how it started, what you do for work all day, etc. I'll try to give some insight tomorrow.

Peace,
Justin
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Postby Mig » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:01 pm

Thanks everybody. Great input and great information. I had yunnan baiyao and is working so far. I guess I over trained my forearm lifting heavy weights and now I am paying the consequences. So resting, stretching, warm compresses and tincture seem to help.
Of course I will double check with several specialist in case it doesn't get better. Thanks again.
Mig
 
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Location: Hermosa Beach, CA USA

Postby Daifong » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:03 am

Daifong
 
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Postby JE » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:31 pm

Hey Michael,

No worries. I took no personal reference in your comments. Rather I just felt inspired to point out some of the details that are often missed in regards to the training of an L.Ac in California. As far a the clinical side of things our training here (and most places I'm aware of) are basically four years of mixed didactic (lecture) and clinical. In med school it's two years of each but isolated, then they go on to further residency as part of their "training" but are fully licensed at that point. Chinese medical training is definitely missing out on the "residency" aspect of training but we actually do get four years (most people take more like 4.5) of time in clinic as we go through our training. We start with just observing and progress to full time treating (under supervision). Being ten years in practice now I can say the training is pretty good but also would not hesitate to say adding on a 4-5 year residency like MD's do would be wonderful.

Just to give a more concrete example of the training in California, feel free to take a look at the following page.
.

National licensing is definitely less than CA and so CA has it's own exam. The national regulations can be found here
.

As I mentioned I think Robert would be a great person to go to. He practices a style of acupuncture that is different than mainstream TCM training. Personally I think his approach towards the treatment of pain is often more effective than TCM strategies which are too "westernized" in my opinion. So I have no critique of that suggestion.

Peace,
Justin
JE
 
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Location: San Diego, CA

Postby JE » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:16 pm

Mig,

Tendonitis is a typically an injury of overuse. In your case it sounds like you were doing too much (too frequent/heavy) of weight lifting. What "typically" happens is that the muscle belly develops too much ongoing tension (does not relax out of tension) and creates a constant pull at the origin of the muscles (the epicondyle of the elbow). Think of pulling on a rope that is attached to a wall - the major point of stress is where the rope attaches rather than in the middle of the rope itself. Does that make sense? The goal of treatment is usually two fold.

If you take the stereotypical orthopedic approach they will recommend NSAIDs, a possible steroid injection at the painful site to stop any inflammatory process, and PT to help rehab the pattern of muscle holding.

Chinese medicine would also take a similar approach (minus the pharmaceuticals and add in herbs). Acupuncture can help with the pain, the inflammation, and help to break the pattern of muscle tension. Herbs can be used topically to reduce inflammation and swelling. Exercises like the yik gan ging (or modifiations out of TSK if you know it) can be prescribed to help rehab the tissues. Omega three fish oils - Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega (a medical grade OTC brand) at 2-4 pills/day also make a great NSAID that is actually good for you. Finally the pattern that caused the original problem needs to be changed. In other words, you can't go back and repeat the same thing and expect a different result.

Robert's approach will typically look for tender points on the opposite knee (think a mirror image of the elbow) and needle in those areas. That type of treatment is typically effective almost instantly - you should feel a reduction of pain with movement within a few seconds in my opinion. And no, it's not that the needle in your leg is so painful you forget about the elbow pain, LOL. If you've had the problem for a while and the tissues have minor tears it make take up to a month for the healing to happen but you shouldn't need treatment during that entire time if you're doing proper exercises.

Hope that helps,
Justin
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