:)

[bicboi123]

[markt]

I don't know this school or people so I will refrain from making judgements about them. But...

If you want to learn a *specific style* and be part of its "family", then lineage is everything. Lineage has always been a part of these martial arts, as the tradition is important. You can't just decide to be part of a family, irregardless of skill. If someone is not telling you where they learned from, then that is a huge red flag to me. Especially in Chinese martial arts.. but then again, you still have to be careful -- there are several schools in my area whose masters lie about who they learned from to make themselves look more legit. So, not only do you have to know the lineage, it needs to be verifiable in some way..

Lineage matters even in martial arts that are considered "modern". You can't just decide that you are a black belt in BJJ. After earning it, you can receive it from someone authorized to give it to you..

But obviously lineage does not equal skill. Lineage means that you learned from someone who had access to the training methods and recognition as part of the family. But usually the most-skilled students are going to be well-known within the family or a branch of the family.. so once you find lineage, you should be able to follow the breadcrumbs to skill..

If you just want to learn to fight, defend yourself, exercise, or some such, then lineage obviously doesn't matter. But skill or teaching ability certainly does still matter here. In styles like boxing or wrestling, credibility is probably going to be based more on the past success of the coach or his students in the ring or on the mats.


But let's look at this logically:
If person A and person B claim to be doing the same style, but look completely different.. then maybe these are some options :
A. One of them is legit and the other is not.
B. Both of them are legit and someone along the lines of one or both changed or forgot what they learned (for better or worse).
C. Neither are legit.

Anyway...

What are you trying to get out of learning a martial art ?

At the end of the day, you need to decide if you are happy with the answers and the training you are getting. It reads to me like you are partially answering your own question, though..

[Fan Kwoen]

Isn't there a reputed White Crane kung fu school in Montreal where you can train instead?

Or for Hung Kuen in Montreal area (Brossard) there's a student of Gam sifu (http://www.hkhunggar.com/home.htm) teaching, I believe.

[daoust]

you ask for the weapons

the sai is also name the gen in kung fu they are not exactly identical it is a old chinese tool , wing lam have a hung gar dvd about the gen wle.com

for the nunchaku , it is a japanese weapons and you don t find it in the traditional kung fu .

[Daifong]

First of all, Kung Fu, Siu Lam, and Hung Gar are all generic terms. Applied together, these terms exactly amount to exercises based on certain principles for health, performance, and/ or self-defense that follow at least a minimum of principles derived from post-Ming Dynasty, Chinese combat skills...which, these days, could be practically anything somebody says it is, without being considered misleading in the least....especially if he didn't say, "it came from so-and-so"...he isn't lying!

Now, when I looked at those clips you posted, I saw..."a post-Ming Dynasty Chinese combat skill-based exercise class, designed for health and performance purpose"...I believe that Hong Kin Sifu even so much as says "they aren't teaching fighting"?

Therefore, IMHO this school isn't doing anything wrong. In fact, they offer at least a minimum of kicking, falling, and some pads to hit, and I distinctly saw a heavy bag in the background. This is more than I can say for many so-called "lineage" schools. Never mind what kind of forms they're practicing, without full-program training, much 'form' is empty anyway...

Bottom line, it does not matter if the teacher learned "Wong Fei Hung's martial art from Lam Sai Wing", if the skills which you are (realistically) interested in acquiring are not in evidence, it simply isn't going to be a fit for you...

IMHO your biggest questions right now should be, "just what are those skills, and how much do I really want them?" Otherwise, I recommend just going back to class, fall in, and enjoy the workout!



Best,

Michael

PS: Why not go visit the White Crane school that Chunyat mentioned?

...you may be able to answer some questions on your own!

[ginosifu]

Not to re iterate what others have said but:

What are you looking to do?

A traditional Lam Tsai Wing or Tang Fang style Hung Gar?

CMA Fighting or sparring?

While training with this school, what has made you post here with your concerns:

Are they not giving you the training you desire?

Are you looking for something different?

To me it looks like they are doing some type of CMA but without a look at their lineage it is hard to say. However, their flavor is that of a Chinese Kung Fu style. I would re evaluate what you are looking for? Are they meeting your needs? etc etc.

ginosifu

[Daifong]

[evildrgo]

Since I'm one of the few on this forum who has spent a significant time at the Montreal Hung Gar school. I've been busy, and thought it would be better if I reply when I had some time to write up a real reply. I'm also not sure why you changed the original post, so I'll have to reply from memory.

You asked about the forms and how in addition to the pillar forms, each animal has a separate form. I'll answer that with a cryptic "Sifu Bun" type answer...

You want to learn french and you join a french school. The french teacher starts you off by teaching you how to sing Frère Jacques. Then you meet other french students over the Internet and compare notes. Well, they're learning french by reading "Rémi et Aline." Woah, that's different from what I'm learning, I wonder if my french is legit?

That's probably better than my poutine story.

I've said it all before in other posts. Ask yourself if what you're learning is what you need.

The main problem with the old school is that a lot of the senior students have dispersed. Our lives have taken us away from the school and I, unfortunately am part of the problem. It will take some more work to train up a new gang of seniors.... It's a problem that a lot of school I'm sure have...

[evildrgo]

And thanks Daifong and Ginosifu for injecting your own two cents into the thread.