Huang Key Ying lignage

[shihinroselino]

[TenTigers]

[Daifong]

I would LOVE to see the Tit Sin Kyun of Wong Kei Ying...

Thank You!

[TenTigers]

It looks as if it is a very recent creation. The third set seems to contain elements of Gung Lik Kuen and kenpo with some Hung-Ga-ish moves thrown in. The usage and linking suggests a "different interpetation" of Hung Kuen technique.
I too, would be interested in seeing Tiet Sien Kuen.

[shihinroselino]

Thanks for sharing your opinion, I really appreciated.
In fact all of these forms are variations from Hung Ga, as it happens in all the Hung Kuen families.

I know they are not very close to the Lam Say Wing tecnics. Our Shifu always explain us how each generation made changes in the forms, so we cannot say that’s the 黃麒英 original set, as well as no one can say that his form is the original Huang Fei Hung form in any now days schools. Unfortunately it will be hard to post the iron wire form, because it is a high level form, I guess only two shifus knows this form and they don’t like to record and post them, I could try to ask for a short sample. In another hand, the 虎鶴雙形拳 would be easier to post, I could ask a friend Who Just recorded a graduation exam. Our version is really interesting; the breathing exercises are a little bit different. I will try to post some other forms.

About your comment over the third taolu, I shall disagree. You see, I know the 功力拳 (gong li quan) very well, (this version: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjM4MjA0NzQw.html) I don’t think there’s any technique in common. In the third video there are many tiger’s claw techniques, is interesting that instead of a butterfly palms, we use a 虎口, (we translate it as tiger’s mouth) this technique is present in modern wushu forms, but they call it Hu xing quan 虎形拳.

The second form is composed of many different techniques, the so called phoenix eye fist (which have also different fists tech.) 凤眼拳, a sequence of three punches over acupoints, a twisted punch and a cross blocking combination with a 羌子拳 that we call twin dragons fist. The other techniques are well known, the black tiger claw, the shuan fu jow, and the daa mau attack on the throat. There is also white crane: 飞鹤勾 and 鹤嘴手.

[TenTigers]

I am having trouble understanding what you are saying. Which dialect are you using? Some sounds like Manderin, other times like Cantonese....
I still see movements that I have learned in the version of Gung Lik Kuen that I learned, as well as seen in other versions, which was why I was curious.
Who was demonstrating the forms? Was that the "Shifu?"
As far as saying that no form is the original WFH version, that is true. However, from what I have seen from many different lineages, all seem to share alot of common techniques and even sequences, as well as actual performance of the techniques.
I would love to see the Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen-particularly the Tiger section and the Crane section.

[Daifong]

...and does your Shifu have a name?

Reason I'm asking, you didn't put your information in the "members introduction", that we may show your lineage all due honor and respect...



Best,

Michael

[shihinroselino]

Yes, that’s kind of messed up, I mentioned the 功力拳 as Gong li Quan in mandarin, I guess in Cantonese should be Gong Lik Kyun, right? I said in mandarin because that is a northern form, as far as I know, his original name is usually wrote in mandarin, like in the chin woo association. The other forms have original names in Cantonese, but we don’t know exactly how they are written, except the most well known forms. In now days we refer to all forms in mandarin, a Chinese helped our shifu to translate them, but I noticed many mistakes in the translation. Many of our kicks and techniques I’ve found out myself the correct name of them, some of them are still a mystery.

Those forms I posted were taught by shifu Huang (黃胡彪), he was born in Guangdong but moved still as a kid to Hong Kong, were he was raised, he passed away in 1982. He taught our actual shifu, Gola (not chinese), in his house backyard and on his snack bar’s garden, he was teaching a family style of kung-fu, he had only eight disciples, and only our shifu keep on practicing.

The forms I posted were performed by me. I’d like to make this clear, I’m not a good performer, I take kung-fu only as a hobby, I must confess I never presented any taolus in any championship, and only recorded those forms for discussing in this forum. As I already said, our shifus don’t like that we place videos of our forms, that’s why I didn’t place then in youtube.

[Daifong]

Ok, so almost sounded like, but actually has nothing to do with the actual lineage of:

-Wong Kei Ying

-Wong Fei Hung

-Lam Sai Wing/ Wong Biu

-Wong Moon Toy

Am I correct?

Ok, if not, it's no big deal. New lineages pop up all the time. It's like "degrees of separation", lol...

(Mr.) Gola? I've never heard of him, neither the forms that you are referencing, nor the other "Shifus" that you mentioned...

"Wong Wu Biu", the Shifu's name is puzzling to me. Isn't 胡/ "Wu" more typically a surname?

I don't know, perhaps he was born a "Wu", but then adopted by the "Wong" family?

If so, then it should properly be hyphenated!

("Wong-Wu Biu")

[shihinroselino]

You are right about the hyphen! Just yesterday I was practicing in our association and there is a Picture of Shifu Wong with his name written under. I don’t know the reason for two surnames, as far as I know he had one registry in Hong-Kong and one in U.K. as „Huang-Hu“, with hyphen.

We don’t know the lineage exactly, but the Hung Kyun forms were transmitted in his family, and some other came from a friend, of Tai Tang Lang in HK. (for the 下八肘, for ex., see: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjM4MjAzNDk2.html)

The Wong Biu you mentioned seems to be a contemporary of Lam Say Wing, right? So I’m pretty sure it’s a coincidence, our shifu died still young in 1982.

Thanks a lot for the information!

[Daifong]

Oh, give all of us a break with that already, would you?



LMAO!!!

[TenTigers]

ouch!

[Daifong]

Well Ten,

You gave your honest appraisal, for which he asked (and with which I largely agree), and which he then proceeded to duck by saying "it's not Gung Lik Kyun" (right-o, actually it's "Sil Lum #6")...completely skirting the obvious fact that it is foundationally American Kenpo "Open Forms" material (lacking even Kenpo's noted "practicality")...LOL!

As for the "lineage" claim, it is likewise obvious that non-Chinese speakers were at work, mis-plagiarizing GM Wai Hong's own book, "The Iron Hands of Fu Jow Pai"...

Watching how the story "adjusts" to anything that is said, no matter how sincere or how ridiculous, just makes me feel like somebody is using this forum as a sounding-board, to "fool-proof" his pitch, in a shameful attempt to validate this obvious line of pap at the expense of legitimate Hung Kyun practitioners, and an unsuspecting public-at-large...
________________________________________________________

Shihinroselino, if this entire line of malarkey is not your own invention, then I am sorry to say but your idealism has been sorely taken advantage of, young man!



Here, these are a couple of more Chinese characters that should prove quite useful, being as that they encapsulate your entire repertoire:

Chop suey - Definition:

Chop suey (Traditional Chinese: 雜碎; Simplified Chinese: 杂碎; pinyin: zá suì; Jyutping: zaap6 seoi3; Yale: jaāhp seui; literally means mixed pieces; roughly means chopped up odds and ends) is a dish in the style of pseudo-Chinese cuisine. It is said to have been invented in New York on August 29, 1896, by cooks of the Chinese diplomat Li Hongzhang who apparently brought his own cooks with him and ate no Western food, even at banquets in his honor. The hoopla about the visit makes all such claims doubtful, but Li Hongzhang's visit gave a boost to Americanized—largely Cantonese—cuisine. A rival claim for the invention of chop suey places it in California, where Chinese cooks ran cook tents for American miners.

Chop Suey is mostly a bland stir-fry vegetable dish, with bits of beef or pork, in a lightly-thickened sauce, and with a dash of soy sauce. Typical ingredients for chop suey are usually local vegetables, cooked to American-style softness, and tend to include:

* bamboo shoots
* bok choy, or its Western equivalent celery
* broccoli
* green pepper
* mushrooms
* onion
* sliced Chinese water chestnuts
* snow peas

It is not an authentic Chinese dish and is instead considered typical American Chinese cuisine to the point of being the topic of a song in the musical Flower Drum Song:

- Chop Suey Lyrics

Chop suey, chop suey!
(your Kung Fu) is very much like chop suey.

Hula hoops and nuclear war,
Doctor Salk and Zsa Zsa Gabor,
Bobby Darin, Sandra Dee, and Dewey,
Chop suey, --Chop suey!--

Stars are drifting overhead,
Birds and worms have gone to bed.
Men work late in laboratories,
Others read detective stories.

Some are roaming 'round the country,
Others sit beneath just one tree.
Tonight on TV's Late, Late Show
You can look at Clara Bow! --Who?--

Chop suey, chop suey!
Good and bad, intelligent, mad, and screwy.
Violins and trumpets and drums,
Take it all the way that it comes,
Sad and funny, sour and honey dewy,
Chop suey!

Ballpoint pens and filter tips,
Lipsticks and potato chips.
In the dampest kind of heat wave
You can give your hair a neat wave.

Hear that lovely La Paloma,
Lullaby by Perry Como.
Dreaming in (your) Maid'nform bra,
Dreamed you danced the (Mong-Cha-Cha).

Chop suey, chop suey!
Mixed with all the hokum and bally hooey.
Something real and glowing grand.
Sheds a light all over the land.

Boston, Austin, Wichita, and St. Louey,
Chop suey.
Chop suey, chop suey!
Chop suey, chop suey!
___________________

Now, just "miss us with all of that", please!

[vtml]

[shihinroselino]

Ok, let’s make some points clear here.

First, I’m not representing officially my Kung-fu association, I didn’t even asked for permission for my shifus to discuss in this forum. They don’t even know about it. I know my shifu’s biography, and some proofs of its veracity, but I cannot speak in name of him.

Secondly, I’m not trying to conquer any approval or legitimacy of any kind, from you both, I just asked for opinion, and I always answered respecting those opinions of yours. In our association We follow the principle of respecting others martial arts as a commandment, always expecting for having a minimal respect in answer.

You can express your opinions about my forms, but I cannot accept personal insinuations against my moral integrity. You don't know me.

You see, I’m Brazilian, I’m speaking in name of a Brazilian association, I don’t think it’s reasonable the idea of having influences from American Kenpo "Open Forms", or from this wai hong's book, my shifu do not speak or read English, I don’t suspect of those influences. I also believe that this forum doesn’t have any visibility here in my region, so you both can remove yours suspects.

If there is any chance of continuing in a discussion with mutual respect I could place more forms, and the 虎鶴雙形拳. But it don’t seems like. So as far as I feel offended I think it would be better to remove this topic, that’s the minimal respect I’m expecting.