pow choi

[Frank Bolte]

Hey,

i have seen different variation of pow choi,some strike with the backfist being top (mostly LSW),I seen some throw it like an uppercut with the elbow bent some others throw it with the fist vertical...many different applications...with the back fist on top i was told its an armbreak also learned as an attack...actually Im not comfortable at all with those applications...the arm break i find next to ridiculous....then I prefer to use it as a strike..but then I'd prefer it to do it with fist turned in and elbow bent... whats your thoughts fellas?

[crazedjustice888]

Well, I don't know much, but when I do sparring matches, I love throwing it with a sun fist just being thrown upward, like lama stylists. My time in hop gar has showed me how powerful it is because you CAN hit with the fist, but the main place that I am trying to hit you with is my forearm bone. We hit the telephone poles non stop, so this works to my favor. However, the back fist or the wing flip in hop gar as its called is the one I like hitting with the actual fist.

Oh, but on the whole break and scissoring effect of the water punches in Hung, I don't really like it, but I guess someone who drills it all the time, could absolutely destroy somebody with it. I guess I am like you Sifu Frank, I prefer the striking aspect rather than the locking and breaking aspect. However, I have never used it as almost an uppercut looking strike. I have seen a bunch of CLF guys do it, so I guess I might try it out in my next match with my kickboxing friend.

[Frank Bolte]

just finished a class and today we did 60% of training striking drills and I tried a drill using pow choi as a strike with fist as the finaliser,if you have a good set up for pow it actually works good...since i always had a dislike for pow choi i never worked too much with it..but today with a certain drill it worked quiet well..but that was on my students..so need to try it when I crosstrain with some friends again...

[ironpalm]

If the Pow Choi is the same one I'm thinking of, I love it. To me, this is the uppercut technique (earth). I start the uppercut as a vertical fist coming up, then when making contact with the opponent's inevitable blocking bridge, turn the vertical fist into the uppercut fist which can defeat the blocking bridge and still hit my opponent at the same time. From the uppercut you can turn into a straight punch if the uppercut is stopped or turn the uppercut into the backfist (palm down) position (pulling away) to move your opponent's blocking bridge away to open a target for your other hand that should be right behind the first one (2 hands working together). If the first uppercut is turned into a backfist to move a blocking bridge (my right hand to his left hand), it must maintain control of my opponent's arm which then gives me control of the inside of my opponent's guard... a good thing to have if I want to hit him again.

I've also been taught to use the backfist to strike down while coming up with Pow Choi... this might be the arm break that people talk about. I would end up with both arms in front of me, elbows bent pointing down, palms facing me and there's a small twist/circle/push pull at the end.

Hope this helps and isn't too confusing... As with all of these techniques, there is the finer detail of skill that allows these techniques to happen even when an opponent tries to block you, which can't be explained here in words...

[TenTigers]

I play it it several ways-one as the arm break, another as two uppercuts, one,reverse hammerfist, the other following as an uppercut, palm up. Thrown in succession, like an upside-down gwa/cup, figure eights. Clears the path for the yat ji jin choi.

[Daifong]

My take on it, if the other guy has a conservative Cham Jang/ "Sunken Elbow" structure, it will be almost impossible to catch or break his elbow with almost anything...

The idea, if somebody is throwing wildly in the first place, his elbows are stretched out, and therefore open. You have to practice timing, and throw at where the elbow will be at it's point of maximum extension, else you crash your "Pau Chui Ship" on his "Elbow Reefs"...

Gwa Chui, Laap Sau etc can be used to corral or "fix" an opponent's elbow in position...

That being said, in her video, Mok kweilaan Loi Si can be observed to be replacing the scissor-action Gwa/Pau Chui with a Chyun Laap/ "Drill-Seizing" hand into a Jong Chui/ "Uppercut" beneath the captured arm, then turn Fo Jin Chui/ "Fire Arrow Punch" like (almost) everyone else...

My take on it, at her height, she wasn't going to hit anyone with many Gwa Chui's, and Pau Chui could be seen as requiring (a masculine proportion of) upper body strength. Therefore, as WFH probably wanted his Gung Fu to be a positive experience for her, he then adjusted it. The martial arts are full of individually tailored, practical adaptations such as this...

Thumb up, we're striking with the Radius Bone, so, some get power with overhead follow-through, and some get power by rotating the fist to horizontal as the bridgehands contact. While rotation has advantage in protection of your own bones while maximizing shearing action, full-arc follow through has different advantages in terms of leverage, especially striking more substantial targets...

Then, there is the issue of training longhands at full extension, for maximum dynamic range development, then shortening a bit for usage, increasing speed, power and control, while simultaneously protecting the fighter's gates by occupying the space inside the bodyline boundary...



Best,

Michael

[PM]

hello everybody

personally, i always wondered about paau cheui and its combat use for looong long time. favourite of Lam Saiwing jung si, my sifu's favourite, "seed technique" of Lama paai/Hap ga/Baak hok... and it did not work for me, damn, how is that

well, Daifong already wrote what he has shown me (and i am saving this post of his again for sure), and that has changed a lot. another thing i really recommend what worked for me: let your students devote some time to paa cheui and its all forms every trainig, like 250 paau cheuis- just paau cheui, yat sing/yi sing paau cheui, tou paau cheui, pok yik sau... start first with attack only setups and combos, move to offensive defense later. pads, sandbag (the fat and heavy one for uppercats and overhands is cool, more like a hanging ball), and voila, works like a charm, my guys use all those forms of paau cheui above very often in a free sparring. does not work much with big gloves, but hell, you change them for the smaller grappling gloves, and groin, body, chin and arms get punished all the time.

what know now, some things need a right time. one of my friends, a praying mantis sifu, told me that certain technique did not work for him for 20 years, but after that he was able to beat anybody in the gwun with that. the lesson i took from that is - not to give up. well, many techniques like paau cheui still on my list. so or so, i definitely know that some of the stuff will not work for me, but still, i am going to give it a try ha ha. for stupid sreet brawls i have already plenty of thing in my arsenal

[Daifong]

Ok, CJ888 makes a point, that Gwa/ Pau is only just one "serving suggestion" for the throwing punch. There is a goodly bit of foundation work understanding long bridge in the first place, before it is going to be the most natural thing in the world to go plow right into a crowd like Lam Saiwing in the Luk Sin Theater using Gwa Chui as a setup...

The challenge to today's Hung player, in understanding this Pau Chui hand, is that Hung Ga Kyun is mainly Dyun Da/ Shorthand Bridging, with longhands incorporated only much more recently...



Best,

Michael

[crazedjustice888]

I don't really know much concerning the ins and outs of the techniques, but apparently long arms fit my body so I naturally use them. I would have to say that the pow choi is my favorite closed fist technique. It has gotten to the point that I throw it in every single one of my matches. Sometimes I catch the arm, other times maybe a leg, or stomach or chin. My sifu, David Chin, says don't think, just throw so no matter what I hit with it, at least I am doing just that. Hitting with it. He pretty much says that to all of the techniques he shows us. I will say this though, I am the only one in class that favors the pow choi over the other punches. None of us are sure why...

[ironpalm]

[crazedjustice888]

[TenTigers]

[ironpalm]

[indrafist]

Short Hand against Long Arm (destruction/Bridge attacks) Long Arm at clinch/near clinch distance for massive penetration and follow through.
Entrain arc segments for re-firing off from any point on the long arm.
Start with long, refine down to short, then back up to long again.
Aim to get whole-body power out along the whole arc path.

[Daifong]