Self learning

[vaulander]

I stand corrected. You may want to bring foot guards as well, for kicking my ass repeatedly without injury, unless you practice iron foot technique. I got some Dit Da Jow for bruises, should you need it.

I understand the Tan Tien concept, and I understood when you said 'sit in the stance'. I have done several slow move-by-move repeats of Kung Gee with all the tips and advice you have all offered, and I do notice a vast difference. Also, as the previously mentioned clips show, I have done far more footwork/stances and striking drills. There is a certain feeling when doing things your way, that I didn't have before. At first I felt awkward pulling my shoulders back, that is, not leaning forward into the techniques, but now, I don't know... don't want to get all dramatic or so, but I guess I can compare it to a cone standing on the bottom instead of the tip.

Thank you all again for advising me and spending time taking my ramblings seriously.
V.

[vaulander]

Vids removed

[TenTigers]

in all honesty, I think you guys are terrific. To work so hard without a teacher takes tremendous discipline and tenacity. I think I speak for all the Sifus on this board, that any one of us would be proud to have students such as yourselves. (ok, don't break your arms patting yourselves on the back...)
As far as critique, Arms too straight and extended. you need to allow yourself the ability to extend, and also reserve. Save your elbows from being broken, yet allow the strike to be able to strike through the target.
Yet, at the same time if you make your moves too short, you don't open up the structure. "From the large comes the small.."
Make sure you are not arching the back on your horse stance, allowing the butt to roll out. (then again, don't tuck the sacrum under too much-you need to find a happy medium)
Derrick, don't worry about forgetting the sequence. Gung Ji Fook Fu Kuen is a very long and arduous form. It takes a lifetime to understand it, perhaps even more.
At this point, I would train the applications of the set, so as to understand what it is you are trying to get your body to do. Form follows function. Once you understand basic application, the movements will start to develop better structure.

ok, I have been long winded on these guys. Let's hear from the rest of you guys. There is alot of experience among the members of this forum.
(It's not the Ten Tigers Show, after all!)

[vaulander]

I did a lot of patting myself on the back after I learned all the moves of Kung Gee, then I saw my first clip and tore my arm off. But I encourage my boys a lot.

I taught what little I know of Tae Kwon Do, what I remember of North Shaolin, and we plan on doing some judo this summer. When it comes to Hung Gar, I am more of an activity leader than teacher, since all I know and understand is what my experience with all the other stuff tells me. And you know I am really not very good. We have done a few applications from the DVD's, and experimented, but not drilled them into the bone like we should. The boys were more into working fancy kicks on mitts and bags, and of course I am more than happy to have guys to train with, so we let some things slide.
After the hints, tips and smacks on the head from you guys, I have drilled far more on my own, and hope to inspire the boys into doing the same.

[ironpalm]

Not sure if anyone else feels the same way but I'm going to make a suggestion that you probably won't like... and that is for you to stop doing the forms (at least for now) and start at the beginning of training. Why? Because I don't see any basic foundation skills in your form. Doing Gung Gee Fook Fu without proper basic training will never allow you to do any move/technique correctly. It all starts with the stances. Students who take the time to learn the stances correctly and put in the sweat and time to make them second nature do well as they move to higher levels of training.

Because this is unique (and difficult) in that you want people to help you via this forum, I suggest you only do a few moves at a time (2-3 at a time) so that meaningful help can be given. There is too much to correct in your form. If I were to start somewhere with corrections it would be with your stances and stepping skills. I know you are eager and want to learn everything at once but this is like the student in the 36 Chambers who starts at the highest level of training only to learn that he must start at the beginning.

My suggestion for starting is:
1) Learn the stationary horse stance/sai ping ma properly (much discussion on this; I'm in the school of toes in). Get in and out of it using the typical 3 sliding foot opening move (sorry don't know the name of that). Hold fists in chamber... elbows back (squeeze the egg!).
2) Add the front punch/for gin choi from the horse stance once you are comfortable in the horse stance and can get in and out of it correctly without thinking about it.
3) Then when you can correctly do the front punch/horse stance combo, learn to step into the bow stance/ding gee ma from the horse stance from all directions, left and right. Add the front punch when you can step into the bow stance correctly without thinking about it.
4) Now try stepping from a bow stance moving forward and backward. With each step you must be in the proper ding gee ma. Move without rising or sinking... like you are on rollerblades. Got it down now? Then add front punches to the stepping both forward and backward. Try doing this in an open area about 50' or longer, moving up and back several times.
5) Next try getting into the cat stance from the bow stance, add the front kick (from your front foot), then step back down into the bow stance correctly. Do left and right. Then add 3 front punches at the end when you can kick and return comfortably and in control at all times.

Learning to do the above exercises will keep you busy for a while esp. to learn them correctly and to make them second nature (or at least to do them well). There are more exercises that you need to do, but this is for starters.

If you can't do the simple moves above comfortably and efficiently you should not move on. This is what I would have you working on if you were to walk into a class today. There are many students who want to learn the forms before they have the proper skill to do so. Learning the basics goes a long way esp. when you start learning at a higher level. I have seen students learning at a higher level who do not have the skills in basic stances and their problems all stem from lack of a basic foundation. It's the difference between looking refined and looking sloppy/unskilled.

Sorry vaulander, this is not the glorious part of Hung Gar. This is the part that where you sweat and grunt and wish you were through it already. This is the part where all the students line up and hate the thought of working through these drills, esp. when the teacher says "Again!" You are on your own, no-one can make you do them. Discipline will be your hardest enemy to learning what you need to learn.

Now for the disclaimer: I am only trying to help... not trying to tear you down. If you don't like this approach for your training then it is your decision to train however you feel you want to. In the long run, it will make the rest of your training much easier and better. This is just my opinion for what you need to train in Hung Gar. Good luck. Hope you find your path!

ip

[vaulander]

By all means, tear me down. How can I build a good foundation when the bricks are cracked and the mortar is weak?

I haven't done the Kung Gee Fook Fu Kuen for several days, instead I have torn it apart to grind and polish the parts.

I AM drilling stances and footwork. The sequence I've come up with (it might be well known, but I didn't know about it,) goes as follows:
Diu Ma (cat,) Gong Ma (Bow & arrow,) Lau Ma (Bow's back leg moves forward,) turn into Seipin Ma (horse,) pull back to opposite Diu Ma and repeat until legs scream. I put a short clip of it on youtube, and I am drilling the stances properly, unlike the hesitant lean forward to look at feet way showed in the video.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuF7UFJi42s[/youtube]

The other drills that I work obsessively are:
Die Zhang (in cat for the circling arms, forward to Gong Ma for the push/strike, basically the later part of Kung Gee left side, right side, etc.)

Kung Gee section 41-45 by Lam Sai Wing, forward stance, double block/push down, finishing with the Tong Tian Chui, the uppercut.

Chan Zhi Shou - Huan Hun Shou, the movements preceding the two Die Zhang at the end of KGFFK.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyA9c4jvyg4&feature=channel[/youtube]

Gua Da Chui, both sides repeatedly.

Jia Mu Kuen

Kirin Bo steps to Die Zhang.

Also the Gua strike to diagonal chop, both sides.

It doesn't look like much, but after doing all these drills (about an hour straight,) I don't have much juice left. Perhaps I will have videos for you to judge shortly.
V.

[Mig]

Work on the stances, don't move the upper body, align your body to every movement and use the waist to give more power to your punch. Look carefully to your knees, feet and have a stance that fits your body and stance. Keep your fist along your waist and practice punching and blocking using a punching bag. Then you can start any of the kgff sections to better practice. Always imagine fighting an opponent and watch the different application of the form.

HTH

Mig

[Subitai]

[ironpalm]

[vaulander]

[vaulander]

Did another clip, working to correct as Subitai suggested. My feet in Seipin Ma still splay out like a V, too many years doing it wrong, and it is especially prominent when turning from Lao Ma to Seipin Ma. Unfortunately, I cannot go deeper in Diu Ma without lifting the heel of my base foot, which ruins the whole stance. I am still crap, but not so much. Also, I miscalculated the camera coverage so I move out of picture a short while.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBZWfHX-8v4[/youtube]

Did some Die Zhang, focusing the palms on the Xiphoid and the chest bone while focusing on the adjustments for Diu Ma and Gong Ma at the same time.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xx5KhjOa9E[/youtube]

[TenTigers]

ok, better, but still not there yet.
On your twisted stance(lau ma, lui ji ma, scissors stance, whatever)
what Subitai was trying to explain was that your rear knee should touch your foward leg. There should be no gaps. The legs "wrap," as he says.
Make sure your feet are facing foward in say ping ma, not out like a duck.
Your butterfly palms should pull all the way back to your hip (chamber), yet the strike comes from the centerline, so the path, if exagerrated would look to come from the hips, to the midsection and push out from there. When I teach this, I have them pause at the midsection before striking foward. As time goes by, then it becomes more fluid with no pause.
Your arms are too extended on these strikes. As are your shoulders. There should be a slight bend in the elbows. Pull your hands back bending at the wrist, so that the hands oppose each other, one pointing up,, the other pointing down.
If you can squat, then you can do a diu ma without your rear heel rising. It's simply self-discipline.
Your heel doesn't raise, you are raising your heel.

[vaulander]

Ten Tigers, thank you for your kind comments.

I don't want to snap at people, but I cannot overstate the fact of my ankles. Put on skiboots and do the stances, and you get some idea of it. There is a point where my ankles won't bend any more, and just lowering my stance raises the heels or makes me overweight backwards. I am working on that, and I am getting a little better, but I still have very far to go before can squat with both feet planted.

[laukarfei]

snap all you want its a computer no ones gonna slap you through a computer lol

i think your wrong, from what i see you just dont understand, and if i am wrong then you need to spend more time stretching and working on opening your hips and strengthening your lower back then worry about gung fu footwork or any kind of form.

nothing your dong looks anything like real gung fu

[vaulander]