Hung Gar against grapplers, and on ground

[TenTigers]

I used to think that way. Then I had a student who trained in collegiate wrestling, greco-roman wrestling, and Jiu-Jutsu try to take me to the ground.
I never hit the ground so hard, and so fast.
When you are playing against someone who practices nothing but a specific skill set, he will beat you with that skill 9 times out of 10.
Now that I am also training in seut-gohk, (Chinese throwing and grappling)I learned that once you develop some skills, it is much harder to be taken down, and much easier to take down someone who does not train this skill set.
Standing in a horse against someone who knows their technique is a sure way to hit the ground-hard. Sure, you might strongarm a sweep, but the rigidity of the horse is its downfall when the game is changed from striking to that of grappling and throwing.
My Seut-Gohk teacher, includes vital point striking as a set-up for grappling and throwing, something that I am just starting to learn.(lucky me-ouch) As he is a Hung Kuen practitioner, his strikes are from Hung Kuen-fast, hard, and accurate, and then lead into his throws.
Suet-Gow, Seut-Gok, Shuai-Jiao, BJJ,Greco-Roman, etc they are worthwhile tools to have in your toolbox.

[Mig]

Interesting posting and it reflects the question any MA asks when it comes to falling or grappling. If you look at some fights MMA, ultimate or others there is no doubt that when you are down without experience in wrestling most likely your chances are minimal to survive. In addition check some BJJ examples of fights in youtube where the karate, kung fu, kempo, aikido practitioner were unable to compete. Granted those fighters may not have been the best fighters but at least it gives you an idea how some practitioners are not ready to fight on the ground. As for a general street fighting it is obvious that a good hung gar practitioner has much more chances of hitting hard, fast and better footwork in the fighting. Then the question of mental strenght and no fear is essential.

Thanks,

Mig

[markt]

[shuen]

[Asmo]

[I am]

[Asmo]

[I am]

I generally work off of a concept of ambush/positional dominance instead of force vs. force/betting on being faster, stronger, etc. In the case of take downs, it begins with what take down we are talking about and how they work.

Generally speaking, take downs often need to disrupt posture (head, hips, shoulders), balance (either a knockdown or not allowing a person to step or post so that they fall), or a level change (such as a drag down, or lift up off the ground).

Some rules of thumb:
Stay in control of your structure
Attack from a strong platform, instead of attacking while giving up your platform
If the person uses a level change, try to do the same to prevent their getting under your center of gravity
Control their posture, balance and levels once you are in contact with each other/clinching

These movements can be found all over in our sets, especially GGFFK. One favorite of mine is stepping back into a sei ping ma (after a sprawl if necessary), using butterfly hands on the head and jaw when a person goes for the single leg.

Dropping into a side sei ping ma or gung ji ma and using the bridges against the collar bones or under the chin and controlling an arm are also great ways to nullify take down attempts. The shapes to answer these attacks are in our sets all over the place

That being said, trying to strike a skilled grappler once they have decided a take down is possible is exactly what they are betting on. I would encourage anyone that is interested in fleshing out this side of their training to find some good Greco or Catch Wrestlers, or maybe some Judo or Sambo guys and feel what they can do. The practice very well developed arts and you both stand to get better by learning what the other is capable of so it is win/win. San Shou competition works wonders as well since many skilled takedown artists compete.

[TenTigers]

when we grapple, we play two ways; one, we do the technique to learn the concepts, structure, technique. Two-we do the technique with follow up strikes and counters to the groin, or wherever,or pull the opponent down with us and continuefrom there. So in essence, we are learning the traditional way for technique and the "modern" street effective way to maintain awareness.

[Asmo]

Thanks guys I guess this is something you need to work out with a grappler of some sort to make it work for you... I already have ahard time finding sparring partners, hehe.

[PM]

i am: excellent points, thanks!

with my sifu, we were many times watching different MMA events, and went through different grappling scenarios. my sifu told me that he used to spar with judo classmate during his high school years, so he has first hand Hung Kyun vs. grappling experience. few some of the anti-grappling techniques are on the video i have uploaded some time ago

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GdxrbowD5s[/youtube]