A timeline for the pillar forms

[Tom Bayley]

Would anyone like to suggest a chronology for when the pillar forms were choreographed to an approximate decade – e.g. 1840, 1880?

[Tom Bayley]

Upon reflection I came up with a question which might lead to greater undertanding.

What is the date of earliest documents in wich the names of the pillar forms appear?

By document I mean any form of writing – letter, book, memorial stone etc.
This will not tell us when the form was created but it will tell us that a form of that name was being practiced at that date.

[I am]

Given that many Chinese martial artists/sifu's were illiterate, this may be a tall order. If anyone has any further info on this though I would be curious.

[PM]

i think Jyu Yujai's book on "tiger and crane", his books on Wong Feihung and articles about previous generations of masters up to Lam Saiwing jousi, all from 1920's and later.

allso, there is a newspaper clip from 1920's about performance of Wong Feihung and his students; it mentiones "tiger and crane" i think (i have got to check, i am not at my comp right now).

all then names are practically the same, some of the older sources call syk ng ying ng hang kyun, or list it as two sets, ie. ng ying kyun, ng hang kyun. gjffk is sometimes called just fuk fu kyun.

[TenTigers]

also, some older lines use Dan Gung Fook Fu Kuen and Seung Gung Fook Fu, Fu Hok Seung ying Kuen.

[PM]

TT: i know, these sets are very popular in Gwongdung. but do you know any old written source mentioning daan gung fuk fu kyun and seung gung fu kyun?

also, i always forget what are these sets. daan gung is basically second part of gjffk, also called ffk. what is seung gung ffk? i remember a son of Wong sifu from Canton explaining me that, but my Chinese was so rusty that i did not understand.

thnx a lot

to the topic - i have the "Thousand Years of Ching" novel, it is from 1890's and it mentions Hung Heigun couple of times. maybe it has some names of the sets in it, i will check.

[TenTigers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjkiPBWQ ... ee8b19a3ca

[PM]

interesting... but i have to admit, kind of weird, mix of gjffk, fhsyk, syk, tsk, plus other techniques and combos, not seen in the commong pillars. i wonder where does it comes from. i have met the guy who performs the set in 1999 in Hong Kong. he is a great grandstudent of Sung Siupo, disciple of Lam Saiwing.

here is another one, but well, it is basically common gung ji kyun:

http://www.56.com/u68/v_MTYwNTAzNzc.html

[Tom Bayley]