Moi Fa Sup Fu Kuen

[TenTigers]

I heard that there was a discussion on this form, its origins etc. I can't seem to find it, so if you can get a link it would be great. From what I have been told, this was originally created as a link between GJFFK and FHSYK. I have seen a version from a "Non Hong Kong" line of a form that in my opinion, was a set that might have either been an earlier version, or a set that inspired Moi fa Kuen. Nonetheless, it was very similar, but not as 'stylized" as Moi Fa. More aggressive in its flavor, more attack oriented, more in, in, in. If you get my meaning. What do yuo know of its history, origins, etc?
I enjoy this set and it is an integral set in my teachings. The version I do is mainly concerned with attacking, trapping, counter trapping, emergency "bailing out"/clearing/threading, and countering again, done in several variations upon a theme. In my opinion, it stands alone as a fundamental tool to teach fighting technique, theories and concepts.
What are your views/experiences?

[Subitai]

I remember back in the 80's when John Leongs Book was out and it showed the version he does.

I think most lines do it this way. We don't however, of course as you know from this thread, http://wle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=18 ... kuen#18087

Just like the namesake for the flowers petals...it does move in at least 5 different directions. Applications are easy to do and understand. It's mostly right hand side dominant. Which is better IMO, most CMA present the right side dominant power hand forward anyway.

I personally don't believe the whole keeping the heart away from the opponant deal. Reality is, if you get hit hard, it doesn't matter how your standing.

Some versions use the low blocking down fist "ala chopping and kneeling down" (I heard somewhere Thunder God Cleaves Rocks) I don't like it used kneeling all the way down like that.

It depends on who you're fighting and what type of attack you use it against. I much preffer the higher version of this that we do...It's faster and easier to use against different attacks.

"O"

[markt]

[PM]

[TenTigers]

'Thunder God Cleaves Rocks" is that , " Luei Gung Paw Sehk?"
I have heard that phrase, or something similar. I have also heard,"Gwai Ma Jit Fu" but I think that is more associated with Choy Li Fut.
I like that movement, as it has so many applications- a snap-off as seen in boxing, an arm drag, or a break, and various strikes, and deflactions.
"Thunder God cleaves rocks" is very descriptive of the tremendous full body power one can generate in this move.
In keeping with the topic, what do you call the double hooking hands into the double horizontal palm strike? I have heard it called,"Moi-fa jeurng" but I think there are usually four words, so it might not be correct. Also heard it called a double flying phoenixes, but not sure of the correct terminology-Sometimes simple translation is not correct-as certain words in combination carry different meanings. (cleaves could be paw, gaut,fun, etc)
Also-when you are in side horse, and perform the lateral elbow strike,lower Tiger claw to the groin, what is that called? I have heard "Hak Fu Jow" (again, only three characters, something is missing) and the whole sequence when using the gwa choy after-some call it bong sao,gwa choy-it all depends upon the application.
The side styance with the lower tiger claw and the other hand in wu-sao but in Fu-Jow formation,has been called many things-this "stance" has so many applications, that I teach it as a large percentage of my introduction to fighting and sparring. As a cover, you have seen everyone use it from Muhammed Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard, to open Karate point fighters, to Kato! It contains bong sao,kwun-sao, gaun-sao, depending on angle, usage etc.
Like I said, Moi Fa Kuen contains so much, I use it as a tool for teaching a great deal of my basic Curriculum. I would also like to express my gratitude to brothers such as PM, Subitai,Has Say Fu and others, who can provide the correct terminology. Some of my former teachers did not know, or use these terms, for some reason, never saw the reason to, but I feel this fills in some crucial 'gaps.'

[PM]

[markt]

[Tholf]

[markt]

[PM]

short note: i have asked Leung Gamgwong sifu (student of Wong Lei) about mui fa kyun, and he has told me that it originaly comes from Choi Ga Kyun (one of the 5 family styles of southern China - Hung, Lau, Choi, Lei, Mok). he sai that Choi Ga Kyun uses right leg forward - right hand strike alot; Hung Ga Kyun uses mainly orthodox stance, ie. left leg forward and right hand strikes.

[06linsim]

It's very interesting that you say Mui fa comes from Choy Ga. I think Sisook John SS Leong teaches a set called "Choy Ga Kuen". Wonder if there is any relation.

[ibuchanan82]

I would really like to find more information regarding the dynamics involved in moi fa, its the first form i've learnt and it'll be the only one i study for a while.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQlbknjqAcs[/youtube]

You'll see the downward kneeling strike, sifu tells me to kneel as low as possible although he doesn't here, i believe due to the rings. I actually prefer it as my sifu puts it " the point is to make yourself as small a target as possible, more importantly is the step back, its a tactical retreat for a stronger counter"

anywhere i can get more info on this form would be appritiated

[markt]

The kneeling here is a good example of training vs. reality. This is to train your step, strengthen your legs. Don't let the appearance fool you .. Unless you expect to be kicked by a midget.. but even in that case, there would be a smarter way to deal with it

[markt]

[Subitai]