Sounds

[Mig]

[JE]

[PM]

different sounds, different purpose; some of them help you to relax, some of them help you to sink your breath/energy (hei), increase the intra abdominal pressure = connect your lower and upper body = increase significantly your power

as the saying goes: yiu kiu ma - saam hap yat - "waist, bridge and stance - all three become one"

also - hei cham daan tin "sink the breath/energy into the cinnanbar field".

as for the internal aspect and health aspect from a TCM/noi gung (and also a Western medicine) standpoint, well, another looong topic.

the more i work on my tit sin kyun and the more materials about it and similar exercises i get (both old Chinese/traditional and Western/modern), the more i am amazed how profound the tit sin kyun and its concepts are.

[Mig]

What about the sounds sort of laughing sound when putting your hands behind your upper back? or others as tik, wak, etc.

Thanks,

[JE]

As PM said this can be a very long topic...

To really understand the depth of TSK you need to start with an understanding of the classical Chinese view of physiology - how is the body constructed, what is it constructed of, what do these things mean, etc. What are the three primary forms of qi/hei in the body? What do they relate to in terms of anatomy, in terms of health, feelings/emotions, fighting, etc.

Laughter is the emotion of the Heart in TCM. The Heart is located in the center of the chest. To really understand what is happening in Dragon Roars Tiger Moans (the posture you speak of) we need to know what we are stimulating, where that something is located in the body, and what the physiological/psychological/spiritual significance of that something is. Again, as PM said, a VERY long topic.

Laughter is created by repetitive contractions of the diaphragm. This massaging of the diaphragm helps to release it ( in part) which helps the connection between the lower and middle daan tin. This connection is necessary for the idea of saam hap yat that PM mentions.

Tik and Wak.... Make the sounds, what do you feel? Do they rise? Do they sink? Then go back to the moves you learned that use these sounds and study them. Do the physical movements match the energetic movements (sounds)?

[PM]

excellent post JE!

[Bamboo]

What are your thoughts about doing TSK without the sounds?

[Mig]

Thanks for the clarification and information. Anywhere to find written information or is this an oral tradition throughout generations. Are these sounds related of what you seen in CLF?

Thanks,

[Asmo]

Sounds tend to be different through different lineages. Not so long ago Charris had a webpage with TSK sounds. Charris should be able to tell the URL to that So even if there is written information about that it all comes down (once more) to what is being taught to you in direct transition of knowledge.

General information about sounds and health is available. I can imagine information about the 6 healing sounds have parallels with sounds in TSK. But at best you get partial information then, and you cant even be sure if that information is correct on the usage and meaning in TSK.

The best bit of public information on TSK that I know of is the book "Iron Thread" from the same company that released the PDF's (kungfu library, if my memory serves me well...). It tries to explain the sounds, but as above, not all are familiar (at least to me) and it does not explain what the health or martial benefits should be.

[PM]

Asmo, the commentary in that book has nothing to do with Hung Kyun, it is not reliable at all.

[PM]

here is a short list with all sounds from the original Chinese Jyu Yujai's TSK book (also not very reliable):

ho, hek, hai, hei, ng, yeuk, ngaai, ye, dai, dik, ye ya, ja, wa, kit, ye ha, ye a

Yale romanisation of Cantonese

[Asmo]

I haven't actually read the commentaries as its quite different Just bits 'n pieces and I notice the sounds were different already. Anyway, if you can buy it, the book is still good for the introductions. Lots of stories & history (whether that is proper history or not, I did not see this amount of history on tit kiu sam and the form itself before... So IMHO its worth to get for that reason alone).

A forum like this should be an excellent place to discuss stuff like this but these discussions never go really deep. Several reasons I think. First is that TSK si really different amongst lineages. Sometimes the form looks like a completely different form, other times the differences are more subtle. Often the sounds are different. Then there are many levels of understanding. And throughout all the differences I guess there is no wrong and right either. People are afraid to say things that will be taken down by others, misinterpreted, etc.

I know my understanding of the form is meager. I have so much to learn. But I do know it built my strength up. I also know if I have a shitty mood and dont feel well, doing tsk lifts me up. I also know for a while I did it wrong, it affected my overall well being in a negative way. With help from Frank I steered back in the right direction. Ultimately you will know and feel where you are on the right track, and where you need to work on. Just like on all other aspects of our art. If you are so far that you are learning tsk you also understand how these processes works and when to adjust

Oh, and take note of my second tagline, hihi.

[PM]

[Asmo]

[JE]