Fight Quest/Human Weapon Hung Kyun Episode!

[Frank Bolte]

[Asmo]

The just one week discussion is soemthing that applies to all episodes of their show. I don't think you should put too much weight on that.

Just bang their arms blue with saam sing. Get their legs sore in static stance training. Add an assorted 2-3 other lin gung exercises which are typical to hung kuen like kiu sao with iron rings. And make clear this is stable Hung Kuen training and make the viewers aware of how long one should be able to perform these. Putting advanced students aside of those two hosts who do the full length/power and that should be pretty clear

I think the real prob is with how to organise the fight. Real hung kuen can't be done at full power IMO. Full power and you trade in a lot, making it more sanda. Difference between a dirty combat art which imho Hung Kuen is and a martial sport.

This last is a good discussion on its own we should do in a separate thread... How do you spar in your kwoon (if you do at all, bwaaa, speak of can of worms), how is it set up, etc.

[PM]

lin gung drills, sure, ok, but how about the rest? what typical Hung Kyun techniques would you teach them? what typical Hung Kyun fighting strategies would you teach them? sparring drills? protective gear would you youse or not? what would be the rules of the training/final matches?

my point is, you do not have to be good at Hung Kyun at all, and you can still smoke out somebody with stance training, three stars conditioning exercise and gung ji fuk fu, virtually anybody who saw one instructional tape can do that. how to transfer and integrate these isolated skills into a real world fighting scenarios? why stances and how to use them, why bridges and how to use the, etc.?

btw. i have no problem with protective gear and Hung Kyun. i still remember when i trained with Y.C. Wong sifu (no doubt one of the most traditional experts on Hung Kyun in US), and one day he pulled a pair of boxing gloves and threw us into a free sparring. i was kind of confused, as a kid i always dreamed about Golden Harvest/Shaw Bros "fighting". he looked at me and said: ping cheui, fo jin cheui, ngau gok cheui, chau da cheui, tung tin cheui! mou man tai

headgear with protective cage, mouthpiece, grappling gloves, shin protectors, elbow and knee pads, cup will do the job (= our standard saan da equipment), without restricting Hung Kyun fighting arsenal that much

thnx for your input!

[Asmo]

What techniques... Well you also want to show the world some cool stuff, the viewers? Because ultimately that show is about television. And that means not necessarily the best techniques for the particular presenter in question. So I still say in that light, stuff like hungry tiger for one, and reincarnated crane for the other. Gong & yao, bridgewise if you like.

This gives a good view of what Hung Kuen is, albeit a bit stereotypical. But they, what can you do in a week and a 40 minute tv show.

Sparring I am not qualified to say too much about it. As you know I am still setting that up here and we have along way to go and still have to add/find people to properly do that with. If I would say do this or that I would just be talking from a theoretical point of view.

[banditshaw]

When we spar with the gloves we are encouraged to use the basics as much as possible. My Sifu has always advocated the modern gear approach since the 60's from what I have been told by my Senior Brothers.
I think if you take say, 5 or so basic punches and kicks and drill drill drill....then you can be just as effective as any other sport based art. You just need competent instructors who can transmit the data and also competent sparring partners who you can mix it up with.

Subitai- I think you, Hamby Sifu and Mark Ho Sifu would be top notch reps of the Hung style. If only it could be a reality.

[mok]

They could spend 5 minutes on about 3-star blocking or stances, just to show the conditionning aspects, but then move on to drills.

I'm with O. that to do this right it would have to be MMA gloves, not boxing gloves.

As for techniques:
1. Someone mentionned the 7-star section - I agree, as it translates readily to sparring. I would make sure when teaching/drilling this, that attention is payed to footwork as well, e.g. the attacking + retreating, etc, not just "empty arms" without moving the body.

2. I would include a couple blocking + punching drills in kim yeurng ma then flow into moving drills of same so they get a sense of both the "long-range" and "short-range" game of Hung Gar Kyun.

3. Tiger and Crane - I would cover some basic uses of tiger: double-fu-jao, flowing into single, and po pai sao. Then go over a couple crane movements - evasions, mo ying geurk,

4. Lastly I would go into the elements/bridges but show only 1 example per element and nothing else: gwa choy, fo jin choy as side punch, wave punch pao choy, etc.

This would give them plenty of materials to drill, and give a a good range of what Hung Gar is.



This would give them plenty to drill with

[mok]

[PM]

[TenTigers]

Lin Gung:Horse, jars, sam sing, bag catching, body striking
Techniques:
Jamming-Bik Kiu: Double forearms-iron door, seung gung fook fu, sup ji sao.Smash into them grab and punch.
Hungry Tiger, Single tiger.Lan-sao, Single leg crane,
element punches from Hell-Jik, Ping,(together like chain punches) Gwa, Cup, (gwa cups across the floor forever)Been sow, in combos. Teach them to throw bombs in succession.
Front heel thrust, side kick, and add into the mix for combos.
Crash, overwhelm, takedown. Over and over again.
Gear-san shou/daido juko headgear-but with JKD gloves-a bit more padding, but you can grab.
Plus-it adds the cool factor. Those gloves will always be cool. BL was the first person to use them, and we've been making variations ever since. Still don't know where he found them...
Sure there will be KO's. That's what HG was designed for.
in one week intensive-especially since it's for TV and not for real-for real.
I think it can be done as well if not better (of course better-who are we kidding) than those other episodes.

[PM]

TT: cool!

side note: do you prefer JKD gloves? are they better than common grappling MMA gear? pros/contras? thnx!

[TenTigers]

I like the JKD gloves-they have more padding than MMA gloves.
They are also "different."
I really think we should set ourselves apart from other sport fighting genres. Kung-Fu needs to have an identity.
Lei-Tai is one of those things that sets us apart as well.
People need to fight with their Kung-Fu.Sure we have jabs, hooks, uppercuts, shovel hooks, cross, overhand. But we also have gwa,sow,cup,been, and we should be using them.

[TenTigers]

picture this-fighters wearing Black Daido-juko type headgear,short grappling shorts,shinpads and sparmaster shoes, and jkd gloves Put them on a lei-tai,
-kind of like the opening scene in Enter the Dragon-which is an image none of us will ever forget.
This image was different than anything anyone has ever seen, and really isnt too different fronm the sport fighting we have now. Keep that image-work it and you will have somethng truly special, that we all can be proud of. Let's do it.

So, and I'm wondering if this is what PM had in mind-if it isnt on fightquest, you can do it on youtube. If we all put our heads together, we can take the world by storm. Youtube is a good vehicle. There is not a person on the internet who hasn't seen the Sar Wars kid.

[PM]

hello TT,

gear: i heard form one guy who had these JKD gloves that it hurts more to be hit with that glove than with a bare fist anyway, i am sure that since Bruce Lee's times it changed quite a lot. do oyu have any useful tips/liks for protective gear? good JKD gloves, this headgear you have mentioned. etc? we use common boxing and MMA gloves, and headgear with the protective cage. i am open to try anything new, better.

your second post: yes, something like this is on my mind. i think this forum could be a good medium for such project. our art is waiting for something like this.

[Frank Bolte]

Gear:
mma gloves,headgear ( we also have the ones with face grill but i dont like them) we use TKD headgear at the moment but are about to buy the ones they use in local amateur mma.. they protect also the chin.
Groin/cup,mouthpiece thats it.

what exactly would i teach ?
So if I have one week time to prepare a none-Hung Kuen guy for a fight...
Been thinking,actually I would not train saam sing and too much horse stance...
I remember when I started learning from my sifu,for the first 2 weeks a fly could have landed on my forearms and it would have been very painfull,my legs were very sore,tired and numb from the horse training..
all those things would put the candidate in a dis-advance for a fight

Imo those things are good for the long term and cant be learned in a week,they will do nothing

Instead

since the goal is the fight
footwork,get in get out,learn to use stances in combat...like destroyng the opponents structure..side stepping,steppin in over angles etc

kicks,like TT said: sidekick and frontkick with the frontleg...

strikes:all the common ones,drill them in combos,practice to react on them too since the opponent gonna be a hungkuen guy..

again ,this, if the goal is the fight after a week

if the show wanna show hung kuen with all its faces then there would be a lot of lin gung,stances,long pole work etc

[Asmo]

A program like is that TV and not meant to be a serious training session to make the guy win his fight. I think if you want to show Hung Kuen to the world you should show Hung Kuen training as it is and not modify it so the guy will win a fight.

At worst you might make Hung Kuen training look 'easy' and the guy might win the fight showing the Hung Kuen guys fight like shit

In the end its about producing good television and not making the guy a better fighter. Think in the same line about how your sifu/sigung explained movie fighting, its not about proper kungfu, its at first about how to make it look good on film. And that will benefit Hung Kuen the most as well as the show will turn out more true to our arts nature.

Thinking from a tv/movie producers point of view is quite different then 'the layman'. I had to look from a producers p.o.v. for almost a decade.