Which form would you pick?

[ginosifu]

With the every year the newer kung fu students have less Time / Energy for class. Mt curriclum seems to be dwindling smaller and smaller. I am thinking about teaching only a few forms for the casual student. If you had to chose only a single form to teach to your student, which would it be? KGFF? / TC? / 5A5E? / other? and Why?

ginosifu

[Asmo]

GGFFK, it has everything, from the bare basics to fighting drills...

Maybe some would say TSK, it has health, strenght, what else do you need

[ginosifu]

Thanks Asmo. Mine as well would be KGFF.

[TenTigers]

Moi Fa Kuen-basics, and plenty of direct applicable fighting techniques.
Grabbing, striking, trapping, counter-trapping, escapes from traps,jams, everything you need to learn to fight-I only wish it had the five element punches.

[PM]

well, sap ying kyun is the set that has everything - part of tit sin kyun, tiger and crane, other animal, long bridges of five elements

so or so, i would still personaly choose fu hok seung ying

[Frank Bolte]

definetely ggffk although I gotta say since I learned sap ying kuen (we dint have this in Lau Family) I kinda like it...many talk about the long arm techniques of ng hang but I actually prefer the short arm techniques...im not a big fan of pow choi from the long arm strikes..cup choi,sow choi they work fine though...the short arm techniques i pretty much like as they work good in combat...
still ggffk is my favourite set...
tsk I would say if Im not into fighting anymore but health..when Im like 65 i just practice tsk...

[ginosifu]

Well here is what I am doing... I have created a curriculum for everyone. Everyone would include all walks of life, from young to old, unflexible and overweight. In the past, my curriculum was a bit rough for women, the unflexible and older folk. Now everyone can start from scratch and work their way up to Black Sash (Black Sash for me means you have finished the Beginners / Intermediate material and are now ready to start the Advanced material).
If a student decides to continue after Black, they would be ready to start a more traditional course. The traditional course is where they would already have enough basic skills that they refine what that have. If they chose not to continue after Black they have enough basics to say that they can say they learned some real kung fu.
My newer curriclum has KGFF as the Black Sash form. If they want to move and more... I have plenty more to offer.

ginosifu

[PM]

please check out our curriculum at http://www.lghk.org/en/curriculum/index.htm

our equivalent of "black belt" is sap ying kyun; gjffk is the core of the basic level and fhsk of the intermediate level.

[ginosifu]

PM thanks for the link... Kung Gee Fook Fu is in your basic / beginner section. Do you teach that first? How do you teach a student who is just starting out in kung fu, KGFF? Most beginners have no conception on how to have a stance or punch.

The curriculum I have implimented is for the casual student who only comes 2 times a week for 45minutes each class. It normally takes this type of student at least 2 years before they have enough skill to learn KGFF. I would start casual student off with Arrow Hand (of course with all the basic punches kicks and stances). This may take 3-4 months, then can move on to Lau Gar Kuen. This may take another 6-8 months.

However, even this sometimes get to be too much for the casual student. They can't seem to remember the material. I am trying to simplify everything so the average person coming into the school can get some kung fu but not have be at the school 6 days a week / 2-3 hours a day.

Do you have casual students? Do you find them difficult to teach?

thanks
ginosifu

[Tid Sin]

My personal choice would be GJFFK. It sets the foundation for further training. We can train that set for the rest of our martial art lives. As a stand-alone set, it's fairly comprehensive IMHO.

As for the other sets, my opinion is that if they're training "casually", then it could be for a few reasons: i) there may not be much conviction or commitment to train hard and benefit from the whole art, as it's more of a hobby or past-time; or ii) although they enjoy it, their life schedules simply may not coincide (e.g. family, career, other legitimate obligations).

They may not even stay in the school very long under those conditions. Hence, I don't see how learning any of the advanced sets would match their needs. Even though it's a long set, GJFFK has most of what they'd require and more.

However, if it's an older person participating purely for health reasons, I'd probably teach TSK. Then, again, I might recommend they try Tai Gik instead, such as Yeung Gar, because the short or long form contains more mobility/footwork that would benefit circulation in their legs and feet at their advanced stage of life (not to say that TSK couldn't accomplish that as well, just comparatively-speaking).

I have a "casual" student that learns from me once a week for two hours each session. In one year, he's learned MFK, LGK, GJFFK & HJP. He's not a forms collector; he's just a quick learner. And it's not just going through the motions, but learning applications and skill development. I refuse to teach more unless he has grasped the material practically. He just trains hard on his own time during the week, which is better than only waiting for class time to train. As I'm sure we can all agree upon, extra training at home "keeps it fresh". He enjoys HK and that's what makes him progress with what little time he can actually attend. I wish I had more students like him.

I wouldn't put a limit on how long it would take one student to learn GJFFK. Some take a few weeks, some a few months. Some up to two years to develop ability to learn it. It really all depends on the person and his/her mindset & goals.

However, in a class setting with multiple students such as yours, students usually want to catch-up with everyone else, rather than be left behind among others who are at about the same level. It could be a good thing, in that it kicks them in the butt to train harder. On the other hand, it may cause a sense of urgency to rush which could result in sloppy training lacking understanding.

The challenge among teachers is to be adaptive & flexible for various kinds of learning abilities. Yes, it helps to have a formalized structure; a curriculum. It's a goal or a standard by which a student can gauge their progression. But there shouldn't necessarily be a definitive time-frame to learn, as it shouldn't be a race against anyone else. It's about self-improvement at their pace.

[Yogicmotion]

ginosifu,

Are you saying that you are first doing a all levels beginners class that does not have forms? Then later teaching forms once they have good basics?

I am curious to how many of you actually separate the beginner in your teaching. Does anyone do just a all levels beginner class?

[ginosifu]

In our class we have all student learning forms along with basics. However, I would go thru basic stances before we get into their first form. We have a stance form... that is their first level (first sash or belt test).
Each level has appropriate drills / fighting / self defense etc etc.
First level is stance form and should 3-4 months.
Second level is Arrow Hand and should 3-4 months.
Third level is half of Lau Gar Kuen and should 3-4 months.
Forth level is the full Lau Gar kuen and should 3-4 months.
Fifth level is half of the butterfly Palm set and should 3-4 months.
Sixth level is full Butterfly Palm set and should 3-4 months.

This should take about 2 years and is the finish of the beginners stage. Next starts the intermediate stage with more drill / fighting / self defense appropriate for someone with a couple years of skill.

Seveth level is the first half of KGFF and should anywhere from 4-8 months.
Eight level is the full KGFF and BLACK SASH! and should take anywhere from 8-12 months. It also is the completion of the intermediate stage. At this point the student should have 3-4 years of training under their belt.

My question would be... do you think that this is too much info for the casual / average student. I know it is difficult to see the curriculum but I have alot of info in each level including Shuai Chiao / Chin Na (Kum Na), street self defense, form drills, kicks, punches, ground fighting etc etc. I want to keep teaching traditionally but I run a commercial school.

One example I can give is that when I teach Shuai Chiao (Throwing techniques) we actually start to mix it up and sort of fight using SC moves. It looks almost like high school wrestling. However, I have a 53 year old woman in the class and she got tossed by a 22 year female and I think that was it for her... I cant keep losing students because they are not prepared for a tough class. That is why I am toning stuff done a bit and asking for your opinions.

[Asmo]

I think there are many levels to GGFFK.... You can make it both a beginners set and a "black sash" level set depending on the kind of understanding you require from the student.

[ginosifu]

yes Asmo.
That is what I am talking about. Do you think that I can say divide KGFF into different sections and then require different apsects for each level. Then for Black Sash they have to do the whole form in its entirety?

ginosifu

[TenTigers]

I took the sup ji gwa choy/ping choy section out of GJFFK and made a separate set for beginners.
I have another beginner's set which adds a few more of our fighting sequences-gwa,cum,sow, jong. Then I teach Moi-Fa Kuen.
This covers first year at least.
I teach falling, front, rear, side, shoulder roll, from day one, and a leg hook takedown, as well as a foward leg sweep, so they learn basic falling and takedowns, and get to practice it for awhile before going onto hip and shoulder throws.