12 Bridges of Iron Wire - Wong Kiew Kit
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by Asmo » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:51 pm
Hmm, don't really feel qualified to be so specific, but with that said... Breathing is done differently (internal differences). In tsk a bit slower performed and externally, in ggffk and fhsyk we do it differently as you probably know (upwards elbow), not just in & out, but that's a lineage thingy 
The speed and internal difference, it might just be my understanding and that I yet have to work that back into ggffk and fhsyk as well. But they are not taught that way when you learn ggffk and fhsyk for the first time.
On a related note.... I sometimes see people do tsk with iron rings, what are your thoughts on that?
The speed and internal difference, it might just be my understanding and that I yet have to work that back into ggffk and fhsyk as well. But they are not taught that way when you learn ggffk and fhsyk for the first time.
On a related note.... I sometimes see people do tsk with iron rings, what are your thoughts on that?
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by Asmo » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:15 pm
You have no differences in the breathing? (our difference in the way its performed externally between tsk and the other pillars, ok, that's a lineage thing)
And on tsk with rings? Would love to hear what you think of that.
And on tsk with rings? Would love to hear what you think of that.
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by PM » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:34 pm
no, no difference, please see the quotation form the Jyu Yujai's books above ("soft", "internal", ok). gjffk has first 2 section of noi gung, fhsky 5, syk the whole first part (which takes more time to perform that the remaining 9 parts), tsk is noi gung all the way, it is a rational graduate progression. gjffk, fhsyk and definitely syk is kind of prequel/preparation/sneak preview of tsk.
there is a lot of so called "internal" training in the beginning stages of the training - jaat ma, saam jin sau, gam kiu, daan tin/IAP, tan/tou/fou/cham...
you can perform the beginning exercises on different levels - as purely external exercises (and hell, all i can say is that i know a dozen much better exercises for eg. strengthening the legs), or the other way. difference is not what (eg. gjffk or tsk), but how. training protocol differs a lot for the more external/more internal (way of performing) the exercises.
iron rings - well, it depends again how. i usually do not do my tsk with the rings, but there are plenty of good reasons why to perform tsk with the rings. there are no definitive dos and donts, it all depends all on the aim, perspective and context.
there is a lot of so called "internal" training in the beginning stages of the training - jaat ma, saam jin sau, gam kiu, daan tin/IAP, tan/tou/fou/cham...
you can perform the beginning exercises on different levels - as purely external exercises (and hell, all i can say is that i know a dozen much better exercises for eg. strengthening the legs), or the other way. difference is not what (eg. gjffk or tsk), but how. training protocol differs a lot for the more external/more internal (way of performing) the exercises.
iron rings - well, it depends again how. i usually do not do my tsk with the rings, but there are plenty of good reasons why to perform tsk with the rings. there are no definitive dos and donts, it all depends all on the aim, perspective and context.
Pavel Macek
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PM - Posts: 1571
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by PM » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:24 pm
well, ithink you still do not get my point...
- in saam jin sau you move - the technique is about movement, it is not an isometric exercise (ie. against external resistance without any movement, although we do drills like that - with the partner, against the wall etc.)
- you can tense the forearm without bending the wrist (we do not do that)
- you can bend your wrist and tense your forearm (we do not do that - try and tell me what your upper amr and shoulder does, ok) because principle of muscular tension irradiation certainly applies, but this is not the aim of this particular exercise (and we have exercises where we extensvley use this concept)
- the rest above!
in a person you would understand in a couple of minutes. it is hard to explain in the words how an orange tastes, moreover, i really do not want to teach on the forum (heart to heart transmission, as Daatmou said
). the brief description above are just couple of notes.
- in saam jin sau you move - the technique is about movement, it is not an isometric exercise (ie. against external resistance without any movement, although we do drills like that - with the partner, against the wall etc.)
- you can tense the forearm without bending the wrist (we do not do that)
- you can bend your wrist and tense your forearm (we do not do that - try and tell me what your upper amr and shoulder does, ok) because principle of muscular tension irradiation certainly applies, but this is not the aim of this particular exercise (and we have exercises where we extensvley use this concept)
- the rest above!
in a person you would understand in a couple of minutes. it is hard to explain in the words how an orange tastes, moreover, i really do not want to teach on the forum (heart to heart transmission, as Daatmou said
). the brief description above are just couple of notes.Pavel Macek
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PM - Posts: 1571
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by Frank Bolte » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:51 pm
- Frank Bolte
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