Cross Training Hung Ga and Wing Chun

[wingchunabq]

Has anyone here ever done this? Did you find it useful or not?

I ask because there is a TREMENDOUSLY good Hung Ga sifu in my town. I've been a lifelong Wing Chun guy but he's so good that it seems like a waste not to learn from him.

[PM]

sure why not! we are all from Southern Siulam. if you have an opportunity to learn from a sifu of other style, go ahead! of course , ask politely your Wing Chun sifu what does he think about it.

[ironpalm]

Be careful not to insult your current teacher by saying that you want to learn from someone else too. Very hard to have 2 Masters... I am a big proponent of learning deeply in one style (as long as your teacher can take you to those higher levels). Learning from 2 different teachers is like learning 2 different paths to get to the top of the mountain.

My 2¢... Choose one good teacher then learn everything you can, esp. the principles of why things work and be able to execute them. Behind all techniques are principles. I believe the principles are the same at the highest levels of execution but different styles will call them by different names and possibly explain them differently. It's as if something is "the same thing but only different". Kinda hard to really explain my meaning here, but I hope you get my intent.

[Tid Sin]

WC & HK share techniques, just with varied ways of expressing them. Cross-training is good as it gives you different perspectives on combative applications.

That being said, someone may derive more benefits from cross-training in these systems if there is already a strong foundation in one of them. That way, one could adapt and more readily appreciate the differences/similarities without having to worry about all of the basic details that an absolute novice would find overwhelming.

You'd mentioned that you're a lifelong WCer, so I'd say go for it. It's all good. Variety is the spice of life

Echoing PM's & ironpalm's concerns, try to figure out how your current Sifu would take it. Some are open-minded whereas others are not. You should know what he/she thinks by now, so you yourself should know how best to handle this.

Ask yourself what you'd be willing to do should you discover that cross-training would not be a welcomed idea. Would you be content to stay with WC and perhaps attain a higher level of martial training? Or would you be willing to burn a bridge to learn HG? Choices, choices

[ironpalm]

[wingchunabq]

Thanks for the replies. The only reason I'd crosstrain with ANY other martial art is to look at what I have in Wing Chun from a different viewpoint - to see how a different system expresses similar concepts/principles. I'm going on 20 years in Wing Chun and sometimes I find I need something different to help refresh my own study, to pose questions to my system in ways that I may not have heard before.

I think some systems are more conducive to cross training than others. For example, I wouldn't try to cross train with Aikido the body/footwork structures and approaches are SO divergent. Hung Gar seems close enough to Wing Chun however that a little "cross-pollination" probably wouldn't hurt.

As for the sifu issue, my Sifu is very open-minded about these kinds of things. He also lives in another city than I do. Moreover, the Hung Gar sifu I'm thinking of is one of the most highly regarded traditional Chinese stylists in my region and has always been spoken of with the utmost regard by my teacher.

Has anyone here actually done it, though (I know you mentioned Bagua)? Did you gain any interesting insights into your style? Specifically speaking, what improved for you?

[Tid Sin]

Yes, I'd cross-trained in HK & WCH: HK at home, WCH at a mo gwoon. Admittedly, I was too young & immature to understand and appreciate their combined benefits. Hopefully, someone who's cross-trained in adulthood can post their insight.

[ironpalm]

[Daifong]

Hung Ga and Wing Chun are "same system, different style". Meaning, both are "Baan Jung Siu Lam Kyun", from Ching Dynasty-era Ming rebels who traveled on Red (Opera) Boats, both to plan, and to project their operations.

Now, whether one came from the other, or they were joined at that (or another) time, both have continued to evolve in close proximity with one another. Yes, each has its original focus, and each has evolved to become further specialized, as well. Meanwhile, each has already taken from the other what was initially important to be "complete" (to fulfill the purpose for which it was originally intended).

In the integration of any given skill or style, some analysis is called for. What is/ are the desired objective(s)?
For a seasoned practitioner of one style to become familiarized with the other, is to retrace the steps of how each style was built. Styles are designed with two purposes in mind a) to be efficient, and b) to neutralize all other martial arts. Note that while "a" will remain a constant, "b" will always change, depending on style history, and individual preference, in consideration of some pressing current need. Whether practicing a so-called "pure" style, or blending different systems, results are always better when we keep the desired objective firmly in mind.

Because of this, any system/ style will reap great developmental benefit from spending time with any other system/ style. It's just a matter of asking, a) do I already have this? b) do I need this? c) do I need to learn to defend against this? d) will this be in conflict with my current approach? And even, e) will this be of any use to me at all?

As you are likely already well-aware, the best way to broach the topic of "cross-training" is to ask your Sifu if he knows the guy. If he is local, but Sifu has not already suggested it himself, there may be some "reason", therefore, one should certainly give all due consideration to his reply.

Anyway, if you decide to go ahead with it, please be sure to come back and share your findings with us here!



Best,

Michael

[Itinerant_Phenomenologist]

Apologies for this post with my limited opinion without actually reading the things above:

The human body, absent magnificent or horrifying mutation, is composed of the same physiological weapons from person to person: Two arms, two legs, a head, and however you want to subdivide [hands, elbows, feet, knees]. The bottom line is that the number of weapons are finite. Given the physical restrictions on range of motion due to joints and muscles and ligaments and tendons etc, the number of physical movements and shapes are also quite finite. Finite weapons and finite postures mean SOMETHING gets repeated or SOMETHINGS look suspiciously/conveniently similar. With this in mind, let me fall into a half baked analogy and hope for the best:

It is best to learn the entire dictionary, or as close to the entire dictionary, for your language first. THEN it is highly recommended that you look at foreign language dictionaries to see if they have words that mean the same thing, words that have similar meaning but with a circumstantial/cultural twist, or completely foreign words which you think are good for appropriation to expand your own dictionary. Chances are you will find far more similarities than differences, but even the similarities found in outside sources will sometimes help in understanding the primary.

I speak from experience. My late uncle was my primary Hung Gar source. After his passing, I could only continue with what I knew, slowly making mistakes as I went without the benefit of proper instruction. But I made friends with good connections and I witnessed related systems that had similar elements. Watching those elements morphed my Hung Gar to the point where every single person would probably call me a heretic/unorthodoxed in a purely Hung Gar sense... but from body mechanics and Chinese kung fu sense, it's still pure. Watching Choy Li Fut, Hop Gar, Wing Chun and other lineages of Hung Gar all made me look internal to my own stuff and ask questions on why I do things in a certain way, perhaps their way is not only different but better, perhaps my way is adequate etc. The key is a solid foundation in the primary before going out for ancillaries. Otherwise it's just chasing shadows and being amazed at every little thing.