Jow Ga's Jiu Lau Da!

[Tailik]

One sequence that is repeated in every Jow Ga form is the Jiu Lau Da. It's reasonable to assume that it is an important aspect in our Jow Ga style. So important that Jow Biu actually discussed it with his students who were in his hospital room just before he died. He reminded them not to forget the importance of Jiu Lau Da before his passing.

There is so much learn, which is why i always consider myself a student. I would be interesting in learning more about the Jiu Lau Da method. Would anyone like to share their knowledge on this concept?

regards
Tailik

[Tailik]

?

[waltor]

Tai lik sifu,

Can you translate this for us? I suspect you are referring to what i would call jiu, gor, nak. Blocking(?) Hand, slicing hand, and grabbing hand.

Walter

[Daifong]

Hello Jow Family!

Let me see if I can be of help...



Ok, so it appears that we have two separate (three-character) formulae here:

1) 照捞打/Jiu Lau Da

and

2) 照割拿/ Jiu Got Na

In the first formula, in Southern Chinese Gung Fu, the character "照" (Jiu) is most commonly understood as meaning "to block", or "to counter" (with a martial arts technique). However, it is apparent that in your Jow Ga system, "照手" (Jiu Sau) is a terminology which refers specifically to what we (in Hung Kyun) know as the “穿桥” (Chyun Kiu), or "Drilling Bridge". This foundational block/ attacking bridge-hand forms the basis of the compound technique known as "猫儿洗面" (Mau Yi Sai Min), or "Cat Washes (its) Face".

Another thought about "照手" (Jiu Sau) is that, in Hung Kyun, rather than always playing this hand as an aggressive “穿桥” (Chyun Kiu), or "Drilling Bridge", a more receptive structure/ energy is alternately used, in the form of the
"鹤翅手" (Hok Chi Sau), or "Crane Wing Hand". I am of the impression that Jow Ga utilizes both variations also, and in similar fashion. Either way, "照手" (Jiu Sau) could quite practically be described as the "Counter Hand" technique .

"捞手" (Lau Sau) is the "Scooping Hand" technique. If, from the right-hand “穿桥” (Chyun Kiu), I then twist my right hand clockwise until it faces the ceiling, palm-up, at belt-level, this is the "捞手" (Lau Sau), or "Scooping Hand". The effect is to grip and twist the opponent's skeleton on contact, setting him up for the finishing "打" (Da), or "Strike".

In the second formula, we start once more with the same character "照" (Jiu), which I am again interpreting
(for all intents and purposes) as the Hung Ga "Drilling Bridge" (or "Crane Wing Hand").

Next, however, instead of continuing with the "捞手" (Lau Sau), or "Scooping Hand", I reverse the motion, and use the "割手" (Got Sau), or "Cutting Hand" technique, cutting downward in counter-clockwise fashion toward my hip, I then continue counter-clockwise into the "拿手" (Na Sau), or "Gripping Hand" technique, following my opponent's hand up, or keeping it down (depending how he struggles upon being gripped), as I deliver my counter-strike (not mentioned in the three character formula offered ).

Now, this all may sound rather complicated, but it is not:

In the first case, we have a right-hand clockwise circle, first half rising into the "照手" (Jiu Sau), or "Counter Hand", second half sinking down into the "捞手" (Lau Sau), or "Scooping Hand". As the "打" (Da), or "Strike" is delivered simultaneously with the "Scoop", the timing rhythm here is simply: "Drill - Scoop/ Strike".

In the second case, we begin with the same right-hand clockwise circle, first half rising into the "照手" (Jiu Sau), or
"Counter Hand", but here we reverse our trajectory upon initial contact (moving counter-clockwise), and sink down into the "割手" (Got Sau), or "Cutting Hand". Once having "killed" the opponent's motion with the "Cutting Hand", we continue (counter-clockwise) into the "Grip" (simultaneous with the delivery of our "Strike"), thus, the timing rhythm here is simply: "Drill - Cut - Grip/ Strike".

Basically, these two "照手" (Jiu Sau) formulae, both clockwise and counter-clockwise, can be seen as providing a mutual reinforcement.



Best,

Michael

PS: In the photograph above, the term "对照" (Deui Jiu) is likely being used in the more commonly understood sense of, "(Master) Lee Ngau and (Master) Lam Cheuk Wun, Countering One Another", rather than in the more esoteric understanding of the "照手" (Jiu Sau) technique itself.

[Tailik]

[Tailik]

Drive by post i'm at event lol
Real quick, the power in lau and gort are different. Lau softer lau circle continuos and circle stays in front of you and lau circle small or larger it should leak or wrap onto da. Lau da can be one hand with only leaf hand OR from jiu simultaneous lau with lead hand & da with rear

[waltor]

DaiFong Sifu,

thanks for the clarification and explanation. I think I follow it. I'm not always good with the cantonese terminology.

Tai Lik Sifu,

Can you point me to a point in small tiger/gwok ji/man ji where this jiu, lau, da occurs? Without going outside and running through my forms (in the Oregon rain) I'm not seeing exactly where the jiu lau da combos are.


Walter

[Tailik]

Walter it occurs same time after jiu sau. Instead of gort to fist. Im americam schools you usually see jiu gort and fist/grab
But it is more common to lau rather then gort after the jiu sau. If you place a piece paper on table then place the back of you right on top of of pale then circle your hand counter clock wise without lifing your back hand then you' ll see how

lau sau. Use flexible paper like kind you use for offering during bai san. The should for a particular shape then you understand the motion. The gort will face inertia more than. The smoothly"wraps inside your oppenents bridge
The jiu sau "receives" like a base ball cat but not like batter swinging with for ball like hitter jiu sau "wraps" sinking so it self sets up entry. The jiu should spiral inside so it can continue with same hand. Clockwise. Its a broad term in kung fu
But is also a particular shape so where you use gort sau you can use lau instead, like the way you turn stirring in car in front of you i think the lau is more commonly used the gort.

[Daifong]

[Tailik]

Your welcome Walter and sorry for my short drive by post with misspellings etc. Daifong is not only a great martial artist, he is also a scholar of martial arts as well

i want to make sure i'm clear on the difference between Gort sau vs lau sau in jow ga. i can actually illustrate most jow ga techniques from the techniques of our baht gwa gwan:

example 1 gort gwan - if i cheung forward with my gwan right forward and extended on the gwan; if my opponent attacks my legs or lower gate, i must withdrawn my gwan directly/cutting my gwan in s straight line downward a 45 degree angle which we call Gort Gwan. This way i beat my opponent to my lower legs or gate and repel his weapon so that i can circle back around with sot gwan or dim gwan (aka hit). the same action and reaction occur with the hand using the gort sau

Example 2 for lau imagine using your extended gwan you have initiate an immediate spiral forward contacting your opponents in a way which will cast away his weapon while you continue to spiral forward striking.

my words sound easy but you have to practice with partner to see. Most of the time when i teach lau da, students usually try to spiral or scoop, but find themselves caught in the opponentss arm but once they get it and see the reaction of their opponents limb when done correctly they see how fast and easy it is to counter and disengage opponent momentarily. The lau is faster than the gort sau using the front hand. the "gort na" is very common in american jow ga, but it's just another way we emphasize our trade mark move with either lau hit or gort grab.

Gort sau in my method is much more effect for countering a kick for reason it off sets where the opponent would usually place his foot causing him to lose balance when putting the foot down. the lau is better for a hand counter. elbow positioning is slightly different, but fast continuous use of the lead hand followed or jointly with the rear is a good combination

Walter you asked me to use Gwok Ji Kune, so i'll try but your version may be different; however in the beginning just before you kneel and then continue with the bao jong. when you are pulling your hands back towards your waist (like crane wings) at same and then kneel striking downwards. you are striking downwards because your opponent has kicked at you counter use one hand to gort. because of the method of your gort and shifting back to diu ma, your opponents leg is dragged off angle causing him to fall while continue after to the ground to strike him from gwai ma.

When you use jiu sau in the shape of our trademark movement, think of it as an entry. the most common word used for jiu sau is "to receive" or "receiving hand". jiu sau can be used in many different manners, but remember like in baseball, when pitcher throws the ball your trying to hit the ball with your bat, in jiu sau you're like the catcher who merely intends catch the ball with his glove.

your brother

[Tailik]

[Tailik]

招 手 Jiu Sau: through my travels the following are words i wrote as Jow Ga elders tried to translate "Jiu Sau" to me

1.strategic move
2. to beckon
3.to receive

it is my impression of that 招 手 jiu sau is a combination of all three combined.

[Tailik]

jiu or jiu da is more common in an advance skill 追打 being another trandemark

[Tailik]

brother Dai fong the character you use for jiu "照 may be alittle bit different or may different (simplified/traditional ???)

[Daifong]