NaamKyun.com Discussion Forum

Fu Hok Seung Ying has the series of tiger claws about half way through the form - one of my favorite parts.

I was wondering....in the famous photographs and line drawings of Lam Sai Wing, only 4 tiger claws are shown (Hungry Tiger Catches Ram; Tiger Emerges from Cave; Fierce Tiger Descends from Mountain; Tiger Tramples on Wolves). However, it seems that most lineages have 10 tiger claws, and not 4.

How did the 4 original tiger claws evolve to 10? Or were there 10 tiger claws originally but the photographs and line drawings show only 4? Who added in the "extra" tiger claws? Why? Are the applications of the "extra" tiger claws really that different?

BTW: we have 8 tiger claws in our lineage. Please note that I'm NOT asking what is right or wrong. I'm just trying to deepen my knowledge/understanding of this art that we value so much.

Thanks!

AFAIK more steps are missing in the photo series of the sets. It also happens in GGFFK. Its not that they weren't there in that time they were shot, it simply not captured on photos.

it would be more interesting to know if the original text says anything about 10 tigers ?

I might be wrong on my assumptions on who written what. It is all a bit hard to figure out as companies claim all the text is by Lam Sai Wing. Here my findings on all these texts and what and why I believe the origin of it is of each of them:

I'm only sure about my GGFFK texts. The book released by CJ has the Leung Daat and Chu Yutsai texts side by side clearly indicating who wrote what. Can't be more clear. The PDF from kungfulibrary seems to be a translation of the Chu Yutsai texts. But the translation of CJ is more clear and understandable.
For FHSYK I trust Charris to be correct when he says that only Quandoman has Chu Yutsai's translation available in English (unless I misunderstood you Charris?). I only have the kungfulibrary PDF so I can not compare anything. 60$ is too much for me to risk it being the same text.
Finally, the TSK book and PDF both from kungfulibrary seem to be translated from the same Chinese text, it just has minor differences that can easily come from translating a Chinese text. The book has a page with a photo of Chu Yutsai saying he was the editor and publisher of the first version. So I assume this (original Chinese-) text not to be made by Leung Daat (both book and PDF). The book has extra historical information that is not in the PDF. Note: wherever Chinese is used in the PDF version it is in Mandarin, also for example on sounds. That's quite different from Cantonese of course. So I suggest anyone interested in this text gets the book, not the PDF.

If anyone has additional information about this or any other texts, please do add. This thread becomes a nice list of what texts are (commercially) available to us all then.

@ Asmo,

You must have misunderstood that my not going into that as a confirmation. To me, it seemed someone had already told you about those translations. I simply didn't say otherwise on that subject, b/c I wouldn't want to come in between (thus to give face).
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@ all.

Quandoman version:
the Gung Ji is based on Chu version, all the others are on Leung Daats.
All are done in Mandarin/pinyin by a student of Hamby.

The Russion PDF's use the pictures of Chu's version (Leung Daat drawing are different). Also their introduction text of Tit Sin Kuen http://books.google.nl/books?id=RbzJWrw ... m+sai+wing
- these texts are not in Leung Daat's version.
I always assumed that the russian version was based on Chu's version, although sometimes they might have used Leung Daat (??) on parts they couldn't make sense of the old cantonese (and not knowing the sets themselves, I think).

One last thing about the translations. The source uses poems, methaphors and just plain crypitcal words on purpose - to not give anything away and only the ones knowing the set will reckognise what they know - but nothing more.
(It's like everybody can read in there what they want, just like there are different interpretations possible for western poems.).

So I think all translations available are good, it's just the source that is plain tricky.

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To original subject

I agree with PM.

With every pic there's a text Action and a text Application/comment. The action text with the last tiger picture (4th) says something like
'tiger leg long movement, tiger descending, left right (body) gesture same.'
Very literal here, to show how one has to know the set to make something out of it.

I would read the last part as "after the shifting/sweeping with the leg and tiger descends the mountain, some of the previous movements are repeated (with the other hand in front? - the comparance of left and right is not quite clear to me).
So to me that's 2 tigers more mentioned in the book, and the other text of the other drawings no doubt mention more too.

Yes I initially (and for a long time) assumed all three "russian pdf's" were translated into English from original Chinese texts by Leung Daat. I guess that was a wrong assumption. Comparing the Chu Yutsai texts with the russian pdf's I saw the GGFFK was very similar. But you are right, I checked more postures and at times the two differ quite a lot. Some sentences seem to be the same, but others are really different with different kind of information, maybe coming from Leung Daat as you say.

So far I have not seen a place with information about these texts like it is being summed up here, so that is all good and hopefully helps people to understand where the texts are coming from.

Anyone knows who is the author of the three chinese books as for sale by WLE.com? Only the fuhok book has a photo of Chu Yutsai in it pointing to it being written by him.
http://www.wle.com//products/b077.html
http://www.wle.com//products/b078.html
http://www.wle.com//products/b076.html

Anyone else knows of other widely available texts (and possibly their author)? After we figured it out I can make a list below with all texts and their author(s) for future reference.

An initial list of texts available:

snip, new one below in the thread