NaamKyun.com Discussion Forum

HungKyun.com presents: Leung Gaamgwong sifu (梁鑑光師傅), a disciple of grandmaster Wong Lei (王利), performs "night tiger emerges from the forest" (ye fu cheut lam 夜虎出林), a set of "old Hung kyun" (老洪拳). Kowloon Park 2008.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja2WVX2_Zn4[/youtube]

First of all, whoa, strong performance! Love the way he moves. Speaks of great skill. Someone to take notice off ...

Curious beginning, don't think I ever seen soemthing like that, including other old Hung Kuen sets. Many short bridges, would love to see applications for some of those techniques. They puzzle me

Later feels more like the Hung Kuen we know. Some techniques that are the same as well, straight out of ggffk, like the turning on the heels. I see he's doing the short techniques there again as well. Any idea what the three short techniques quickly after another are Pavel?

One last remark... Noticed there are lots of same leg/arm forward techniques, far more then we have in our pillars. Hmm, poor memory, called South Paw?

Thanks for sharing, very very cool stuff.

Leung sifu is a great Hung Kyun master, strong as fast in his seventeees, but also humble person and real gentleman. last year in HK i have spent quite a lot of time with him and his students/grandstudents.

"other old Hung Kyun sets" - i did not see much of other "old Hung Kyun" sets, although many claim to be "old Hung Kyun". anyway, eg. saam jin Hung Kyun i saw in China last year was very similar, not to mention tit sin kyun, right

short techniques - i have an idea, but as i do not know the set, i am not sure if i am correct - i will better ask this year than guess

South Paw is something different, it is reversed guard (ie. right hand right leg forward)

last thought: it is more than obvious that (old) Hung Kyun, Fukgin white crane and Wing Cheun share the same roots. everything (legends, history, principles, techniques) points to Fukgin and its system.

just can repeat my self very great skill shown here,a real master.
Fukkien influence is very obvious.

I have a theory when it comes to old hung kuen..
there are probably already different branches.
I think for example, that Luk Ah Choy and Hung Hei Goon
probably have different styles of hung kuen and later merged when Luk ah Choy started to train with his sihing...but they both supposed to have learned from Gee Sim,then again we dont know how true all this is..also Gee Sim suppose to be a northerner so why should his kung fu be all short bridges,narrow stances etc. might be as well that Hung Hei Goon learned some fukkien siu lam first and later more from Gee Sim..and Luk Ah Choy learned only from Gee Sim thats why the differences..also Hung Hei Goon learned white crane while Luk ah Choy didnt...
For example our forms from Malaysia dont look like fukkien forms at all..they have low stances and wide moves but also short bridges...
and those sets suppose to be from Luk Ah Choy...actually I find those sets resemble the WFH hung kuen more than the fukkien sets..

I learned some Ng Jou Sets and they are more like the night tigerset shown in the clip...

This all gives us just more food for thought,more to research....

Franky, some good points!

my 2 cents: yes, Luk Achoi's Hung Kyun and Hung Heigun's Hung Kyun might have been the same, might have been different, but for us is no way find out. i know your Malaysian lineage goes back to Luk Achoi, but is does not necessarily means it is same as Luk Achoi's - during the generations after Luk Achoi it might have undergo a lot of major changes, exactly as Hung Heigun's gungfu or today's WFH/LSW gungfu - and the changes might be similar (and there are other things, like the question of pre WFH fhsyk, right?)

Jisin simsi was not a Northerner (and also not from the Northern Shaolin Temple), he was definitely Southerner, at least according to what i know. i mean, Fukgin is is North(east) of Gwongdung, but it is still South China. some sources say he has added the "long bridges, wide stances" to our "short bridges, narrow stances" after 3 visits of Gwongdung province, without giving much details why...

as i wrote above, for me is more than interesting connection between (old) Hung Kyun, Fukgin white crane and Wing Cheun, as already discussed here on the server, eg. here http://www.hungkyun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=443 always going on in Fukgin always a story about a girl and the crane or connection to some female (Ng Mui, Fong Wingcheun, Fong Chatleung, Yim Wingcheun), always "short bridges, narrow stances"... damn, i really would love to find out more about all this

see you soon brother!

Beautifully done. Nice set. Thanks for posting. To my untrained eye, some of those short techniques almost resemble some SPM.

Maybe it should be referred to what the masters called it themselves in the old days, siulam and not hung kuen, and stop worrying so much if its hung kuen or not since the name hung kuen seems fairly recent when compared to the whole history of it

my friend/Sifu Chao Hung's Hung Kuen comes through Luk Ah Choy-short bridges, shorter stances.
Jee Siem was also connected to Wing Chun's history, not only for the pole and knives, but to the point that there is Jee Siem Wing Chun.
Longer bridges were more likely the addition from Wong Yun-Lum's Hop-Ga(Lion's Roar)
I love trying to connect the dots, but the more I dig, the more these "histories" seem to be fictitious. Well, so much for trying to seek the Holy Grail of Hung Kuen.
Remember, when these systems were being practiced for combat, they simply called it Siu Lum, Siu Lum Hung Kuen, Fut Ga Lo Hon Kuen, etc.
All basically different names for the same thing. The histories and "styles" didn't appear until the need for fighting was over and Sifus were promoting their schools.

chusauli: i also think it might be like that that

Franky: actually my sigung still plays very "short bridges", even in the common WFH sets, my sifu is always mad when he hears that Hung kyun is "long bridges" (it is, but just a small part of it). however i agree most of the WFH sets kind of lost most their Fukgin flavour, but! - play gjffk (first half) in yi ji kim yeung ma and narrow ji ng ma, or fhsyk (first five sections) in these narrow stances, and you Fukgin flavour right there. and i am not speaking about our arrow palm http://www.hungkyun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=610 and of course tit sin kyun

Asmo: some historical research on Southern Shaolin was already published, eg. the book by Dian Murray and Qin Baoqi, The Origins of the Tiandihui: The Chinese Triads in Legend and History; no Hung Heigun and Jisin simsi there though. for me, the important thing is not if the legends are true, but what their message is, ie. in this case: Hung Kyun was originally short bridges/narrow stances system and to be more complex, it was enrinched with long bridges/wide stances. same goes for the tiger and crane legend: Hung Kyun was hard/male/Hung Heigun system (tiger), and it was enrinched by soft/female/Fong Wingcheun techniques (crane) to be more complex system. yam yeung harmony indeed!

all the best guys, nice discussion (no worries Asmo )

I also dont think hung kuen is all long bridges,I think nobody does,but it has now a different flavor than for example fukkien styles...ng jou,spm,fukkien white crane etc still look the same... if hung kuen looked also like that why did it change so much ?

anyway I love the way it is now...hehehe