NaamKyun.com Discussion Forum

PEOPLE,
PLEASE
THIS IS THE VIDEO SECTION.
I JUST FOUND SOME CLIP IN YOUTUBE
AND LINKED IT HERE,
AS IT INTERESTED ME -
I LEARNED THIS SYSTEM WHEN I WAS YOUNG.

THE FORUM IS NOT FOR ARGUEING (except friendly debates on histoy and techniques in the right section) OR BICKERING,
SO I 'VE REMOVED THE LINK.

It's amazing what was uncovered with the advent of the internet!

Well I'm not sure who is posting this stuff as usual but I suppose it doesn't really matter much these days. I don't remember when the video of Sigong Jeff performing the Siu Lam Sap Jing Kyun is from - sometime in the 80's I believe. As for the other two they are obviously instructional videos so don't show much of the flavor or detail. Maybe interesting to some but far from amazing...

Hopefully this is a bit more interesting... it's from a while ago but certainly not the 80's.

Peace,
Justin

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsvTGc9LAug[/youtube]

hmmmm...well, as far as wire forms go, it was pretty interesting, but I would think that if it were Tit Kiu Sam's original set, it would have more similarities to a Samjien Kuen form, more short bridges, smaller posture, etc., such as some of the village Hung Kuen sets, Hark Fu Mun, etc..
what are your thoughts?

I'm not sure anyone could ever say something was an "original" of Tit Kiu Sam. Pretty hard for anyone to know that for certain. All I can say is that the lineage as written down by Sizou Lai states us going back to Tit Kiu Sam. So I guess I would say we stick with Sizou's story but sadly there is no way to verify.

I'm not sure why you think it should have to be more short bridge in nature to be Tit Kiu Sam's original set. No disagreement from me on the pervasiveness of Sam Zin Kyun and it's variations, but TSK as passed down in our family is pretty different than any of the Sam Zin's I've seen.

Peace,
Justin

The outside Hung Ga Kuen world know of the Lai Ng Sam lineage and Jeff Hasbrouck as being the Official successor of this lineage.... What the outside world don`t know is that Jeff`s main school where he taught every evening was in Bristol England... The only information really that outsiders can read/see is from the Dutch branch of the system under Evert Van Der Meulen and his students such as Justin Ehrlich in San Diego...
The students of the Bristol school were pretty much just interested in the training and enjoyed learning a nice system from an authentic source.. They weren`t concerned with rubbishing other systems of Hung Ga, or stating crazy and incorrect claims about the system... Just working out hard to better themselves and learn a complete Chinese system...
However the family WEITO etc etc has become embroiled in these fanciful discussions and incorrect claims which tarnishes the whole lineage as handed down from Lai Ng Sam. This is so wrong and ridiculous, people fighting over who`s name is first under Jeff`s and who has the unique transmission from Tit Kiu Sam !!!! All nonsense.... Instead of bickering, Jeff`s Bristol students just practiced and enjoyed... Incidentally Jeff hasn`t officially appointed anyone as His successor and possibly won`t for a long time to come... I`m sure Lai Ng Sam wouldn`t have wanted this for his system, He was a very humble man who trained for the love of His art, as we should all be doing...
When you state claims that have no proof and the set names within the lineage and teacher`s names are constantly changing etc etc you are going to annoy a lot of people and this is the situation that they are confronted with now, people posting forms to upset the family and then nothing productive will come because they can`t accept that instead of doing correct and proper research, a lot of nonsense gets printed about the Lai lineage, which gets peoples backs up...
Jeff taught how it was shown to him and now Evert has taken the role of technical officer of the school, but no longer trains with Jeff... Over the years a lot of movements and theories have been included to the Lai heritage that doesn`t belong there and so the system is morphing into something other than how it began...
If people worked on themselves a bit more and stopped wasting time upsetting everyone else this situation of clips being posted without permission etc wouldn`t occur...
It is sad to see the art of Lai Ng Sam being changed away from the original because of the ( in my opinion ) incorrect motivations and so called deep understanding of it`s players... Resulting in differing historical accounts over the years and names of sets taken from chinese texts... Doesn`t lend to it`s understanding at all, it just confuses things to it`s students and especially to the outside world...
I`m pleased in some sense that this has happened as it may now clear things up regarding the Lai lineage...
It`s not so much the art that`s important, but how the player conducts Himself in the practice and perpetuation of the art that makes all the difference... Incidentally Jeff is aware of these changes and is not pleased.....
Only time will tell !!!!!!

Well now, that's a rather charged reply... though I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. I think I would simply ask that you respect the standards of this forum and take any lineage concerns to private discussion. You can send me a private message here anytime or my personal email is waitosandiego@hotmail.com. I'm not sure who you are but you know who I am.

Just for the public record I will clarify any claims we might be making...

1) Sizou Lai claims our heritage comes from Tit Kiu Sam. We have a hand written letter from him stating this. This is sadly not verifiable but we have no reason to assume he lied to his successor Jeff.

2) Our lineage is certainly no better than anyone else. We are just a bunch of people who enjoy training. We move a bit differently than others and the theory behind our TSK is different as far as I understand - although I'd certainly like to hear more from others about this.

3) My teacher is Evert van der Meulen. He does not claim to be Jeff's successor. He openly admits to teaching differently than his teacher. I openly admit to teaching differently than my teacher. Gok3 Si1 Gok3 Faat3

4) The presentation of TSK here on this forum is just a snapshot of my own journey with the set. In no way am I saying it's the shiznit for what it can or should be. The clip is very personal and I'm happy to share it with a bunch of fellow Hung Kyun practitioners who also take this journey seriously. If they want to critique my performance that's great. If they like it that's great. If they want to share their perspective that's even better. Hung Kyun Yat Gaa - One family...

For those who think something like TSK should be kept hidden... go ahead. Sizou Lai trained TSK in Victoria park on a daily basis. Over the years thousands of people watched him train it. However, with forms like TSK - to the untrained eye what you see is not what you get, and if you can see it then you already knew it...

Peace,
Justin

Hung Kyun Yat Ga!