NaamKyun.com Discussion Forum

Thought I would ask since another forum member mentioned something similar to this. Is the dragon component of the Ng Ying Kuen/Sup Ying Kuen..or..(as I understand it) what Ha Say Fu lineage HG teaches as a solo set..similar to the dragon patterns/moves/sets one would see in Lung Ying(southern dragon) that was taught by Grandmaster Lam Yui Gwai?

Someone told me once that with the exception of the waist rotation/twisting..that there is a good ammount different between both.

Can anyone comment? I have videos from Grandmaster Yip Wing Hong and it seems to resemble Hsing-I/Shing-Yi more than what I can see in lets say..the 5 animal HG set(but since it's hard to identify what component of the form is dragon based--I cant comment).

alot of the Gungdong Hung Kuen (Hung-Ga) was altered to fit the dai ma framework. If you look at the techniques of the Tiger and Crane and see them from a "Hakka Kuen" POV,close up the stance, make them smaller, tighter, "softer" with more emphasis on using the bridge to "feel," you may get an idea of where they were coming from. Of course, this changes things a great deal.
Is it the same? Is this how it is meant to be played? Does it work the other way? Can you take one technique and apply concepts of another to fit? What if...? These are questions only you can answer as your Gung-Fu becomes your own.
Hung-Ga is an encyclopedia, and contains a huge range of techniqes. Each person will find their own way through the system. The vast amount of technique allows each person to learn the system, and then find what fits their individual person, yet pass on the system to others to find their each own way.
My two cents.

My understanding is that lung ying emphasizes the movement of the dragon. The practitioner hunches his back and rises and sinks as he steps.. This is influenced by how people think the dragon moves/flies.. Some have told me that longtime lung ying practitioners can be identified by the shape of their back..

It's a bit different from HK - I don't think we really have movements that try to look like a dragon. As my sifu would say - who has ever seen a dragon before ? The dragon idea in HK is a bit more elusive and I think is more about the spirit of the dragon than the shape..

In fact, I have never been told that a specific section is a "dragon section". If you say the beginning of Gung Ji, or Sup Ying are dragon sections, then that makes Tit Sin a dragon form ? My understanding is that the dragon is scattered throughout - like the idea of a dragon that appears and disappears and changes shape ..

What I meant by "dragon section" was..ok, as an example..when I look at the 5 animal form of Choy Li Fut(the video by GM Doc Fai Wong comes to mind), there are points in the form when one can see a crane wing extension/crane beak for a series of movies..and lets say(for illustrative purposes) a series of moves later..I can see him do a double fu-jow(tiger) or in a certain point in the form..I can see him do a snake fist strike.

So..carrying this over to HK..can one see in any of the forms(lets say..the 5 animal or 5a/5e for the Lam Sai Wing folks), a series of moves where the practitioner uses the "dragon claw" or signature moves which doesn't conform to any of the other 4 remaining animals, which one could say "ok..that looks to be dragon moves?",etc..

I was reading a book recently which states that Tiet Sin Kuen contains the footwork of the dragon..

at least..this is what the article said. I've never learned Iron Wire..but seems possible.

There is not a lot of footwork in TSK. It is mostly shuffling between yee gee kim yeurng ma, baat ding baat bat ma, and a narrow horse.

If some call the shuffling dragon step, I do not know - I have not heard that..

As far as I understand, breathing in Hung Kuen is considered part of the dragon. Tit sin is for a large part about breathing, hence the reference to the dragon. Ng/Sap Ying have dragon opening sections, and although the moves have a martial flavour, its still more about breathing and chigung then martial techniques. Same for the dragon section for example in gung gee. Personally I find the opening of fuhok a tad more into the martial technique area but I heard people refer to that opening as dragon section as well.

When you think about dragon being breathing in hung kuen it also becomes clear that dragon is always with you, whether you do a tiger or a crane technique or whatever else. Unless you don't breath that is
That's an entire discussion on itself again too, as quite some people will say all of the bridges, all of the animals and all of the elements are present in each and every technique you perform. Its just that some of them are more present then others in certain techniques.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4hMgQEJEyM[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJV-CqNWyDM[/youtube]

from forum member Lohaksi

Gwongdung Hung Kyun lung ying (in syk, tsk) and lung ying kyun (the videos above), 2 different and not related systems.

as for the lung ying kyun and Hung kyun similarities, as many similarities as with any other system, punches, kicks...