NaamKyun.com Discussion Forum

So what does everyone out there think of MMA and the growth of the sport?

I also always wonder how a Hung Gar master would stack up in the ring against a trained fighter...

IMO - Many often say how the more traditional Martial Arts are outdated but I can't buy that at all! MMA incorporates striking, wrestling and groundwork/submissions. I think a Hung Gar fighter, with a knowledge of wrestling and submissions would do really well.

Anyone have any ideas why you don't see that many Hung Gar/Kung Fu practitioners in MMA?

Most 'masters' would get knocked out or submitted in the first round.

Traditional martial arts have a different focus for the most part.
I don't believe it's much to do with techniques being obsolete, but the more the intensity that people train these days.

There is also a lack of knowledge of other fighting methods. Most traditional martial arts practice drilling only against other people of their own style. When they demonstrate applications such as takedown defense it's usually against someone who is not an expert in that area of fighting (may have learned the takedown just to help demonstrate the application). Anyone can defend a poorly executed takedown..

I don't believe there is anyone training seriously enough to compete with a professional fighter. Neither well-rounded enough to compete in all areas of fighting, nor anywhere the general fitness & strength levels of professional fighting athletes in mma.

In fact, I believe it would be quite rare that a traditional chinese martial art master could hang with an amateur thai boxer.

It's not that the techniques are not practical -- it's just that most are not training or aspiring to that level & constantly testing themselves against other styles.

There is also the pride you find in martial arts where people claim their style is 'complete'. People claim you can use 'cma principles' on the ground.. etc. and every situation should be able to be handled within their style..
Doesn't make sense to me.. A style that specializes in ground techniques most likely has better evolved ground techniques. If it works, learn it. Nothing wrong with learning something.

I post too long.. Anyway, in summary - most traditional martial artists would need to step up their training intensity and learn more about other styles before being able to compete in any type of professional fighting..

As I remember someone saying before.. there is nothing wrong with cma that more sparring won't fix.

The thing is that CMA is not designed for that kind of venue,an olympic sport shooter wouldnt be a big help in a war..mma fighter train especially for the ring or cage while cma is much more complex...if a cm artitst wanted to fight mma he had to train like that...he had to learn the rules,how to fight in a ring or a cage,rollin etc, cma is a selfdefence so the situation when it comes to apply ur style has a different inviroment,its a complete different situation..there are no rounds,no rules,no referee...

To cross spar has a valid point..here u can learn more about ur style..

MarkT said
In fact, I believe it would be quite rare that a traditional chinese martial art master could hang with an amateur thai boxer.

I would agree if the kf master had to fight thai boxing..but if he can use his style I do not agree..I sparred thaiboxer,tkd guys (ex olympic team Philippines),bbj (gracie barra),judo,kickboxer and boxer...I could handle myself quiet well and I dont consider myself a master although I do teach..the boxer couldnt deal with low kicks,couldnt deal when I trapped his hands (its easy cos of the big gloves)...TKD I tried to stick close so nullyfied his kicking range ..worked good...Thaibxer and kickboxer where tough but both agreed that I if I wanted ,had there groins crushed in a few situations..bjj and judo was dangerous when they could take me down..of course it happened sometimes ,but in those sometimes again I could have squezeed the juice out of their nuts at times...in all fairness I also had to tap,caught some mean low kicks,caught some hits,caught some knees but it wasnt never like Im just a victim..they were complaining about the forearms..not used that their limps getting attacked..I won some rounds lost some...against some styles I didnt lose at all ..Im just glad that here most martial artist are very open and like to cross spar...in february we have the next meeting..might as well film some stuff

That would be great to see Franky.

As for MMA and KF. I would say just like all the other disciplines out there one alone is not superior. All MMA'ist cross train and most have a base style that is fairly traditional.
A boxer doing boxing alone isn't going to cut it nor is just a wrestler.

MMA is a venue. As a Gung Fu man you would have to adapt and train for that venue just like you would in any other venue.

As for real life fighting I have had no trouble using my Gung Fu in the past and have confidence in the few bread and butter techniques that have worked in my favor.

The point has been made that the intensity of training for a MMA match is much higher than that of a master. The point has also been made that MMA has rules to fallow. But I have not heard any mention of the use of qi. If this factor is added in the mma mas a greatly reduce chance. This will of coarse be subject to the intent of the "master" but from I have witnessed in the use of qi, they would be soar pressed. The biggest problem is rules. Their are no rules in a FIGHT, one walks away and the other does not.

the argument about technique,whether it be MMA or TCMA (which in reality is the same-all TCMA are MMA-but let's not go there, m'kay?)
The bottom line is how you train. For example, if you only have a front kick and ping choy(reverse punch) and you train it with the greatest intensity, you will be able to use it from any angle, any set-up,any situation, and be effective. "Fear not the man who knows a thousand techniques, but the man who knows one technique and practiced it a thousand times." People like Bill Wallace-who only kicked off his left leg, and from that leg threw either a roundhouse, sidekick, or hook kick. All his opponents knew this, and yet all got nailed with it. Why? Because he could throw it at will, all three kicks from the same chamber, knew how to set it up and land it. Old Shotokan fighters, like Tonny Tulleners used predominantly a front kick, side kick and reverse punch and caved people in with it. Joe Lewis -backfist,sidekick,reverse punch.Deadly.Muay Thai-a handful of techniques,but very intense training, Royce Gracie-a handful of basic ne-waza, etc,etc. We can go on all day.
In the end, it is not the style, but the level of training, whether it be MMA,TCMA, Tennis, swimming,etc.
In TCMA, there were many fearsome fighters-Gin Foon Mark, Chang Tung-Shen, Kuo Yun-Shen, Wong Yun-Lum, etc who were virtually unstoppable. A prominent Jook Lum practitioner, who's skill is very high is quoted saying,"You see my skill, but you didn't see what it took me to get here." How many people are willing to actually put in the time, the pain, the years of grueling training, to achieve the highest levels of skill in their arts? Do you have the ability to train your footwork, back and forth across the floor for hours, day in and day out? Doing the hei-gung,loi-gung, rings, jars,weights, bags, drills, drills, drills, etc? After you get home from work, and take care of the rest of your reponsibilities, how much time each week do you have to deveote to your training? These men did not train two-three times a week in a school for an hour class.
MMA fighters who fight in the cage matches put in the same level traininig as olympic atheletes. Do you have the time. or money, or will?
Another thing,MMA is highly publicized, and is the flavor of the week. Every Tom, Dick, or harry wants to train MMA. NOBODY even knows about real Gung-Fu-even most of the people who claim to do it! So where will these TCMA fighters come from? It's a numbers thing. How many kids today want to even learn Gung-Fu? I taught for years at a Chinese association. Most of the kids there weren't interested in Gung-Fu. Sure, there were some little kids, who thought it was fun, but only teens that were there were there only because their parents forced them, and their attitude showed it.
Face it-TCMA is not really popular as it was in the 70's. Sand to say it, but Royce gracie inspired more people to train than Jacky Chan and Jet Lei. Le Parkour will probably be in their next movies, and even that will outshine the Martial Arts.
The closest thing we have to a TCMA guy in MMA is Cung Le, and he does san-shou, which is ...what?
Sure, it would be great to have TCMA in these matches. But like I said, it's a numbers thing. For example-Tiger Shullman's Karate (now re-named Tiger Shullman's MMA) boasts several people in their schools have entered and won in K1,Pride, Sabaki, and other MMA events. TSK has over 35 schools, with a few hundred students in each school. Don't you think if you had over 3,000 students, you could find five guys to train to be real fighters? Do the math.