SPM sifu?

[waltor]

Ok, so I normally don't go around asking if people are legit are the internet, but I really cannot get a feel for this guy.

http://www.chinesefistology.com/home.html

[Daifong]

Wikipedia is quite informative these days:

Kwong Sai Jook Lum

According to oral traditions, the Kwong Sai Jook Lum (江西竹林) style traces its origins to the temple Jook Lum Gee (竹林寺), Wu Tai Shan (五台山) in Shanxi province and on Mt. Longhu (龙虎山) in Jiangxi (江西) province. The monk, Som Dot (三达祖师), created this new martial art system in the 18th century. He passed the art on to Lee Kun Ching (李官清), later known as Lee Siem See (李禅师; a name that can be translated as "Zen master Lee"). Lee Siem See would travel to Southern China and spread the art amongst the general population. In Guangdong, his student, Cheung Yiu Chung (张耀宗), would later return with him to Kwong Sai to complete his training at Jook Lum Gee.
In 1919, Cheung returned to reside in Wei Yang Xian (Wei Yang County) Dan Shui in Guangdong Province. During the winter of 1929, Cheung opened his first martial arts school and a traditional Chinese medicine clinic in Bao'an County in Píngshān (坪山) Town and continued to promote the Jook Lum system. Wong Yook-Kong (黄(公)毓光) and Lum Wing-Fay (林荣辉; 1910–1992; also known as Lum Sang (林生; Lum Sang can be translated as Mr. Lum ) and Lee Shen Sheng (李肾胜) are some of his students from that period.
Cheung eventually moved to Hong Kong. He opened a martial arts studio and became the head teacher to the Hong Kong Hakka ship and dock workers union. The classes in Hong Kong was taught by Wong Yook-Kong and this school still exists today. Wong Yook-Kong was described as a large man and in training he placed great emphasis on strength and physical conditioning before moving onto the more internal aspects of the style. One of his favorite training method was to practise with 30 to 60 LB iron rings on his wrist while he perform his forms. As a result, his students also emphasize those aspects in their training. The lineage of Wong Yook Kong is continued by his two sons: Wong Yiu Hung (黄耀雄) and Wong Yiu Hwa (黄耀华) and other students such as Lee Kwok Leung, (李国良) and Sifu John Koo of Portland, Oregon (a Disciple of both Wong Yook-Kong and Lee Wing Sing).
In the 1920s Lum Sang, one of the youngest of Cheung's students in Hong Kong, was fortunate enough to meet and study with Lee Siem See during one of Lee Siem See's trips to Hong Kong to establish a Buddhist temple (Chuk Lam Sim Yuen). Lum studied and traveled with Lee for the next seven years. In the 1930s, Lum returned to Hong Kong and opened a Kwong Sai Jook Lum Temple Tong Long Pai school in Kowloon. Lum Wing Fay was described as being small in stature, being only 5'2" and 120 lbs. In practise, he placed emphasis on softness and redirection and his students continue to display those traits. In 1942, Lum Sang emigrated to the United States and settled in the Chinatown of New York City. He started teaching in Chinatown's Hakka Association, the New York Hip Sing Tong at Pell Street. In the late 1950s, he taught at Free Mason Association Athletic Club, also known as Hung Ching. By 1963, his Kwong-Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai was one of the largest kung fu schools. In 1969, Lam Sang retired from teaching and migrated to Taiwan. Lam Sang died in 1991. His students such as Harry Sun, Wong Buk Lam, Gin Foon-Mark, Henry Poo Yee and Louie Jack Man would establish themselves as teachers following the example and high esteemed reputation earned by Gin Foon Mark, after Lum Sang retired. All of these men have promoted this art in the United States and around the world. Gin Foon Mark became the most well known practitioner and master of the art passed to him by Lam Sang.

[Itinerant_Phenomenologist]

With a preamble of openly stating I am neutral on this due to lack of information, I just want to point out that wikipedia is ultimately user generated content. So even though wikipedia may seem very informative in some areas, things which might be considered openly contentious or difficult to verify tend to nest and root in wikipedia with little opposition. The rampant real-time editing and re-editing of U.S. political candidates is a prime example of information that seems plausible suddenly being caught and redone.

Just a note of caution.

Cheers.

[Daifong]

I.P., I just supplied the information to shed some light, but you're as right as rain. Anybody can put his name in there. And, while I like to believe that we as martial artists aren't as bad as most of those politicians, I did take a look at a certain other Wiki page, on a style with which I am somewhat more familiar, and have to admit that there are branches which appear to have been wholly fabricated mixed in with legitimate ones, and a circular form of self-promotion extant, in which complete "unknowns" drop a name, then, under pretense of being established and informative, collusively attempt to ratchet their way to prominence. So, caveat emptor on all Wiki info, to be sure!



Meanwhile, perhaps somebody knows Koo Sifu personally?

[waltor]

Yes, Wiki is not the most reliable of sources. I was hoping someone would have some first hand knowledge, but who knows. Can anyone even verify that is Wong Yuk Gong in the pictures? He doesn't look very large to my eyes, contrary to the Wiki description, but who knows...

Thanks.

[Rattan_Bridge]

If you want to study southern mantis and you live in Portland area, you would be very fortunate to study with Master Ku. I don't understand why his lineage is in question. You should just visit his classes and check him out.

[bam4everboo]

I am one of his student. I have been with my sifu since 1991 or may be 1992. He is in fact both Grand Master Lee Wing(Ying) Sing and Wong Yuk Gong diciple. He follow both of them until they passed away. He is the only one that is carrying both Grand Master Lee's and Grand Master Wong's lineage system and teach those skill in one school. Just recently one of our si ba from Europe. He is one of the Grand Master Wong student. He found us on facebook and made contact with us. He remember seeing my sifu at my his house when Grand Master Wong came to teach my sifu. Those pictures you saw on our website are all real pictures. If you have seen both of our Grand Master pictures before you should able to recognize them.
The part that was not right in the wiki is the part of Grand Master Lee Wing Sing. He first started to learn under Cheung Yiu Chung (张耀宗). Not long later he met Lee Siem See (李禅师) when he came to Hong Kong. He then followed Lee Siem See back to the temple. He left for almost 4 years. No one know where he went and not even his family. After he came back he started to teach Bamboo Forest Temple Praying Mantis in Hong Kong Tai Po Hakka village area. While Grand Master Cheung and Grand Mster Wong were teaching in Hong Kong island and Kowloon area.

[wang0514]

I am new one here
wish everybody happy everyday

[pippysun]

Please see my website though published in Chinese- jltmantis.weebly.com

[Element7]

Waltor,

I am also a student of Sifu Koo (Bam4everboo is my Sihing).

Sifu Koo says that Wong Yuk Kong was about my size. In 21st century America, I'm just average height and weight, but 90 years ago in Hong Kong, who knows, I might have been considered large too. For comparison's sake, note that Sifu Koo is at least 6 feet tall, maybe even taller.

The photos on Sifu Koo's website are genuine, and invaluable records of these two Grand Masters.

Sifu Koo also has a Facebook page, which you can access via his website:

http://www.chinesefistology.com/

Regards,

Element7