Kung Fu (Hung) Concepts Basic Entries, apply & Misc

[RHD]

[RHD]

[RHD]

[Daifong]

[Subitai]

SIGH!! As predicted ... More BS from a TROLL.

My opening paragraphs are what brought you here??? Really???

Those statements didn't seem to bother ANY.....ANY other people on this forum. Mabe it's because only someone who is insecure or feels something is lacking, would be the only one to speak up.

BINGO...you spoke up.

I predict more trollish sniping from afar... and the troll once again not putting a shred of his own skill up.

You realize that you were the 1st one in this thread to make personal attacks when you admittedly trolled. Pathetic.
.....

Lastly for the record...F%$K you MIKE, I tried to explain one simple concept to you that day at Rik Kellermans school. You were already jaded and I could see the look on your face was already closed. So I didn't even bother to finish explaining what I was talking about. Too bad for you, I could have showed you something good.

BULLSH!T if you think I was there only for FORMS. If you made ANY indication at all that you wanted to "touch hands" with me I would have obliged you on the spot. That's the Main reason I go to those places. A troll like you doesn't get to accuse me of such things...you're a straight up pu$$Y and you can't handle it, so you come here to make trouble.

either contribute or just go away and die already.

( "Die" as in the persona of the Troll that is)... i'm not completely heartless.

[Itinerant_Phenomenologist]

[Apologies and congratulations if you get through the longwindedness.]

From the outset, I want to establish that what I say should be taken with as much politeness as possible. No sarcasm or bad-faith intended. Also, because I don’t really know any of you, and therefore don’t feel comfortable addressing everyone individually, I hope you don’t mind if I simply “talk” as if to a non-existent third party “about” you guys:

I must confess some confusion.

Subitai made an observation that most traditional people suffer from an inability to apply their skillsets in a proper scrap; they train their traditional forms and traditional techniques but end up doing a slap-dash poor imitation of kickboxing when physically confronted. His goal was to make a series of videos to give nutshell highlights as to how certain specific Hung Gar bridging principles may be used.

RHD, after viewing these videos, gave a half-hearted commendation to the spirit and effort, but ultimately expressed dissatisfaction, stating that despite the mission statement, the video demonstrations still suffered from the standard stop-action traditional showcasing.

To be absolutely fair, RHD’s observation in that particular matter seems accurate. However, continuing that spirit of fairness, I fail to see an alternative better method for Subitai to employ.

RHD suggests doing some sort of real time sequencing; he suggested Subitai attempt to show Hung Gar principles against a well-trained Western boxer throwing combinations. But even in that situation, it would still “suffer” from RHD’s complaint of traditional “patty cake” drills and stop action performance. From what I’ve observed, whenever a teacher/coach/instructor is explaining the mechanics of a technique/movement, how it can be ideally used, what are the potential weaknesses/openings of a movement, it is always done slowly for teaching and learning purposes. Once the participants become conversant with the new knowledge, they are at liberty to speed it up. They may even speed it up to the point where the display is indistinguishable from how it may look in the ring/street/tournament setting. But ultimately, it is still a drill where the partners are set on practicing a particular thing/showcasing a particular thing; both parties are “conspirators” in the scheme because the whole goal is to drill the reaction against particulars. Thus, even RHD’s request for Subitai to show applications/reactions to a Western Boxer’s punch combinations becomes an exercise of “high speed patty cake”, to borrow RHD’s terms.

At this point, RHD may then suggest that what he actually wants is an improvised, real time showcasing of Hung Gar skillsets against Western Boxing combinations; essentially a sparring match. Neither Subitai, nor our now confused but default-drafted stock Western Boxer, should be aware of what the other will be doing, and in this situation RHD will be more satisfied. But exciting as it may be, it ultimately detracts from Subitai’s primary goal which is to showcase specific Hung Gar principles that can be employed in specific scrapping situations; specific principles which he sifted through and chose to showcase for specific types of engagements [because as an instructor, he has the right to pick and choose what goes for free and what requires a more personal encounter].

If the whole exchange is improvised, there is no guarantee that Subitai would ever get a video highlighting points he wanted to make. What if Subitai wanted a video just on how to apply jamming principles, but the boxer, unaware of the nature of the video, decides to bounce, sidestep, feint etc for a whole hour? Obviously you could say Subitai could advance and force an encounter, but that would still leave an element of chance on whether a proper situation would present itself. Perhaps Subitai could “inform” the boxer that the whole point of the video is to showcase jamming techniques… but this then treads that perilous line of “high speed patty cake” because people now have expectations and goals; things are becoming set and a pattern of compliance will emerge.

The final option is to have a long drawn out sparring match. No words. No stops [save rest breaks]. No moments of explanation or clarification. Just a sweaty bout of fisticuffs, with a prayer before-hand that Subitai will be able to show specifically what he wanted to show, rather than just a plain and simple fight. Then, after the fight is over, the fighters rewatch the footage and add a voice-over in the style of a director’s commentary on a movie; at this point they can then explain what they were doing, thinking, and attempting to perform frame-by-frame.

That, however, is an absolutely inefficient way to try and explicate and showcase principles. It brings to mind the grainy footage from many years ago of that HK Wing Chun instructor William Cheung who was ambushed by one Boztepe. Nevermind the controversy and the politics behind the rumble, but in one attempt at defense of his reputation, I believe William Cheung provided some level of commentary on the footage saying things like “I blocked his punch here with a [insert Wing Chun hand]”, and “he tried to do xyz here, but I managed to stop it with [insert Wing Chun principle/hand]” etc etc. But in that plainly impromptu physical altercation, no amount of squinting eyes can discern or conclusively validate all the blocks and kicks and principles being cited. It may very well be true that all those principles and techniques were being employed. I draw no conclusions on that situation because I lack the knowledge or authority. But the point is, in this completely chaotic exchange with voice-over action, I am quite confident that RHD would view the footage with at least the same, if not more pronounced, vocal disbelief and distaste as he did with the "stop-action patty cake" drills.

As far as I can tell, the only way Subitai could satisfy his goal of showcasing specific Hung Gar principles was to do it in the standard format; moderately paced, and generously spaced, with commentary and pauses along the way.

Obviously the gripe against this would also be that it looks too cookie-cutter perfect, too unrealistic, and seems more in-line with movie choreography than actual scrapping. But in truth, boxers and MMA fighters training in the gym, practicing their drills, techniques, and combinations, all look cookie-cutter perfect compared to when they actually start throwing fists in the arena; I suppose the idea is to train the ideal shape to obtain the ideal power so that when you’re forced to improvise in reality, despite the lack of ideal shape, results are still present because of the cookie-cutter perfect drilling. A person training to do take-downs requires proper leg positioning, leverage, momentum etc to execute it flawlessly with perfect results. When you actually have to use it, the person probably doesn’t always have the luxury of best positioning, leverage, or momentum… but he can muscle his way through and get the take down anyway because he has the principles down and the proper power trained up.

Well why can’t traditional gung fu people fight if they all aim to train cookie-cutter perfect shape to gain ideal power so that during improvisation they can still obtain their results?

Likely a lack of internalized understanding combined with a lack of experience. Subitai is trying to remedy the former; emphasis on trying because the demonstrations only offer an “academic” understanding…much like how a student “knows” everything during lecture but cannot seem to recall/explain it a few days later. It still requires internalizing for perfect understanding. Individual sweat, and a willingness for bruised pride, is required for the latter.

...or this could all be "baloney" as RHD so pointedly opined. Nevertheless, my late two cents.

[Subitai]

Interesting... I'll address a Non troll who tried to make some intelligent observations...but I will no longer address a known troll.

A few points:

1) Advice from experience: when you want to learn to build a house, you learn from someone who has actually built a house. Not your uncle who's seen other people do it.

In this sense, I have used SOME of the concepts in professional fights and to the trained eye also divulged a few of those principles in my videos. It is not my problem if Trolls can't pick up...due to lack of experience.

2) In the concepts series (1-5) They are meant to be seen in order of 1 to 5. Included, I explain a few key concepts for a Hung Player to create a bridge...even in a modern arena. Also, early on I clearly show how to "intercept" & "elongate" to negate some of the negatives that arise from fighting a boxer. As I.P. pointed out...by default I have to do these in the purest sense in order so that the audience has the best chance to see what I'm doing.

I will reaffirm that no other instructor or sifu from the Hung Community (that I know of) has attempted give out this type of information...with the level of detail that I have given, before me.

** But the devil is in the details. The information is sound, rooted in our principles and most of all I Actually used them in a professional setting.

3) The "Traditional skills vid" is an offshoot to expand the topic further. In the very beginning, I announce the Tiger Skills are drilling. But then I go further and let loose a few other "KEY" concepts. I will not point those out for A-HOLES.

4) I walk the talk... as I have for many years. I will step up and show people 1st hand. I will continue to do so until i'm too old. But I find it sad that most of the time, it's NON-Chinese instructors who are out on the front lines doing what they love and not getting the same amount of respect. Case in point, in the Wing Chun community Philip Bayer comes to mind. I've never met him, but I heard he will mix it up with you (or would have) if the chance arises.

Honestly, I've gotten a few good emails from people who appreciated what i've attempted to do. Who have been encouraging me to continue doing so...but is there any worth in it for me? Compared to what I show people up close touching hands...i've only scratched the surface. Screw the detractors (save for few of my personal students) i'm fine with letting my knowledge go with me to the grave.

[ironpalm]

I think it's pretty bewildering that there are people who think they are entitled to be shown proof that someone else's techniques/training must be proven to them. If you don't think someone's technique/training would work, or that what they do is BS when compared to MMA or BJJ or other martial arts, just move on. Otherwise it is just a display of ignorance and ego and a sense of entitlement... "Prove to me that it works and that you can use it, then maybe I'll give you my approval". In actuality, the burden of proof is on the disbeliever to discover and understand what is being displayed, not the person showing the skill set. The only reason to belittle someone else's technique is to build up your own sense of accomplishment. And belittling is different than questioning.

I have found that the most highly skilled martial artists do not even care one iota about what someone else thinks about their skill level and don't even care to prove it to anyone else, yet they are most willing to share with those who deserve it. I don't know what anyone else thinks about Onassis' videos (except for RHD unfortunately), but I do appreciate "O's" effort to publicly share some of his knowledge. He has a wealth of knowledge but it's just not in a 5 min clip. It's just a snapshot of basic techniques that he likes to use and he wanted to share with us, that work for him. It's up to us to take it and make something of it or discard it. If you don't think it works as well as something else, great! Ignore it. Just don't be the fool for throwing out the lump of coal that eventually becomes a diamond for you.

Everyone is different and will be drawn to different styles and techniques that work for themselves. Foolish is the person who thinks there is one characterized style that fits all, that is better than all.

[Xiaobian]

[Asmo]

There will always be haters, respect you a lot "O", and admire your sharing. Best to ignore the people who are not contributing in any way. Maybe an ignore feature on the forum could be implemented? (or is there one already?)

[nomamao]

[Subitai]

Haven't been here for awhile, here's 2 more:

Kung Fu Basic mind your openings


Hung Gar Concepts 6

[Subitai]

For those who asked for some more drills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GleMcrK ... e=youtu.be

[Subitai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DAb6F8e-sA